24 replies to this topic

[halleb]

Hello all you fisherman out there,

After a long "winter sleep" I am getting ready to start fishing again. Over the weekend I got myself new Quantum bait casting reel at BPS. I never used baitcaster before so I was eager to give it it try, not sure why , I guess to try something new , so there you go...

Well, at first I was very excited about it, it looks nice, it feels nice, etc... BUT ... , Well, handling the baitcasting reel proves to be a pain in ### , at least for me. It seems I can not do nothing right with it, I can not cast (without getting d@#& bird nest), or if I cast, it is pitifully short distance.. Needles to say, it makes me uuuuuuuuggghhhhhhh ,

So there is not other way around either I learn how to use this thing or I have to take it back to BPS...

I was hoping to perhaps get some tips and help with the baitcating reel from more experienced fisherman on the board , any info would be very much appreciated, ...... how to spool it, how to set up and adjust, how to cast, what mistakes to avoid when using baitcasting reel....

Thank you in advance !

[PainInTheBass]

I got my buddy using a baitcaster this past weekend.

What I told him to do was tighten all of the brakes first as well as the cast control knob (the knob right under the handle).

Second, I told him to press the release button, and the line should not move (assuming a lure is tied on).

Slowly, loosen the cast control knob until the line starts to come out and the lure drops slowly to the floor. The knob should be loose enough that when the lure hits the floor, the spool does not do a full turn. Once you get the knob tightened to this point, it is set for the weight of lure you are using. You can loosen it further once you are more comfortable with casting and want the spool to spin more freely/quickly.

Now try some casts with all of the brakes on. When casting, your thumb must serve to slow the spool down and to stop the spool from spinning as the lure stop moving (i.e. - it hits the water/ground). Keep practicing until you are comfortable then reduce the brakes.

Repeat the previous step until you are comfortable with the timing of thumbing the spool and the distance you get.

The trick is to understand that the lure can only pull line out so fast. If the spool is spinning too quickly, and the line is not being pulled fast enough, then the line will tangle, resulting in the birdsnest. The brakes, your thumb, the spool tension knob all serve to control the rotatin of the spool. You must learn to use all of these tools to control the rotation. Once you do, you will have accuracy and distance in your casts.

I have mine set so that I can launch the lure with only having to thumb the spool at the end of the cast and not during. Your comfort level may vary.

Hope that helped some.

[efka]

from what i heard its all in practice, there is no real formula to it.
can't help you here man, tried it once and didnt like it.

[halleb]

I got my buddy using a baitcaster this past weekend.

What I told him to do was tighten all of the brakes first as well as the cast control knob (the knob right under the handle).

Second, I told him to press the release button, and the line should not move (assuming a lure is tied on).

Slowly, loosen the cast control knob until the line starts to come out and the lure drops slowly to the floor. The knob should be loose enough that when the lure hits the floor, the spool does not do a full turn. Once you get the knob tightened to this point, it is set for the weight of lure you are using. You can loosen it further once you are more comfortable with casting and want the spool to spin more freely/quickly.

Now try some casts with all of the brakes on. When casting, your thumb must serve to slow the spool down and to stop the spool from spinning as the lure stop moving (i.e. - it hits the water/ground). Keep practicing until you are comfortable then reduce the brakes.

Repeat the previous step until you are comfortable with the timing of thumbing the spool and the distance you get.

The trick is to understand that the lure can only pull line out so fast. If the spool is spinning too quickly, and the line is not being pulled fast enough, then the line will tangle, resulting in the birdsnest. The brakes, your thumb, the spool tension knob all serve to control the rotatin of the spool. You must learn to use all of these tools to control the rotation. Once you do, you will have accuracy and distance in your casts.

I have mine set so that I can launch the lure with only having to thumb the spool at the end of the cast and not during. Your comfort level may vary.

Hope that helped some.

Thanks teninchman , this DOES help. I did some reading on this too, but as usual theory is one thing but practice is something else...

So basically, if I am understanding this correctly (please feel free to correct me any time you wish) , even though if I mange to set everything up properly, still in the end I must use my thumb to stop the spool from rotating when lure hits the surface (water or ground) ? Am I right on this ?

Also, if that is the case , how do you cast with baitcaster at night (O.K. I know I am getting waaaay ahead of myself, but curiosity could not be helped). I mean, if you do need to stop the spool when lure hits the water, how can you do that at night when you can not see this ?

[halleb]

All right, I'd like to ask few more questions.

1. What is better to use on baitcasting reel , mono or braid ?

2. I realize I do not have specialized bait casting rod . How much of disadvantage (if any) it is if you are using regular spinning rod with baitcasting reel as opposed to using proper baitcasting rod with baitcasting reel ?

3. I read somewhere on the board , something about that "backing" is required if using braided line ? I did not get this quite right, any thoughts on this ?

[efka]

All right, I'd like to ask few more questions.

1. What is better to use on baitcasting reel , mono or braid ?

2. I realize I do not have specialized bait casting rod . How much of disadvantage (if any) it is if you are using regular spinning rod with baitcasting reel as opposed to using proper baitcasting rod with baitcasting reel ?

3. I read somewhere on the board , something about that "backing" is required if using braided line ? I did not get this quite right, any thoughts on this ?

dont baitcasting rods have more guides since you hold the rod upside down, oh and they are all pretty much same size.

[MikeyMikey]

Welcome back halleb.

I remember playing with a baitcaster myself for the first time.

As for the rod, you should really be using a baitcasting rod. guide system all different... usually more guides + guys are closer to the rod.

oh and i first practiced using 15lb mono.

[disspatcher]

Braided Line does not stretch like Mono. On a hook set you need to be careful when using braid. The hard hook set with no stretch will pull the hook straight through the mouth. The Braided Line is nice becasue you can get a low diameter line with all the strenght. Casting 20lb Mono is a hard to get any distance.But casting braid that is good for 20lbs is far easier with the smaller diameter & weight. Now as far as the backing goes. The only reason I know why guys do this is because it is highly unlikely you are going to get spooled. So why put yards and yards of expensive Braid on? Load the reel with mono first and then continue lining the remaining with braid.

[PainInTheBass]

So basically, if I am understanding this correctly (please feel free to correct me any time you wish) , even though if I mange to set everything up properly, still in the end I must use my thumb to stop the spool from rotating when lure hits the surface (water or ground) ? Am I right on this ?

yes. the spool does not stop rotating because the line lure has stopped moving. Unless you manage to tune your brakes to the point that for the distance you wish, your spool will stop spinning at that exact moment, you will have to use the thumb to stop the spool. Additionally, you should learn to use to thumb the spool because that is where the cast control with a baitcaster comes. You can shorten the distance of casts if you realize mid cast that you gave it too much juice, hitting your target more readily.

Also, if that is the case , how do you cast with baitcaster at night (O.K. I know I am getting waaaay ahead of myself, but curiosity could not be helped). I mean, if you do need to stop the spool when lure hits the water, how can you do that at night when you can not see this ?

Casting a baitcaster at night is tricky. Eventually you get the timing down, it is very similar for each cast you make once you become consistent. What can happen though is you hit a tree or bush at night because you cant see them, and therefore cannot thumb the spool in time, causing a birdsnest. That is the danger of baitcasting at night.

1. What is better to use on baitcasting reel , mono or braid ?

2. I realize I do not have specialized bait casting rod . How much of disadvantage (if any) it is if you are using regular spinning rod with baitcasting reel as opposed to using proper baitcasting rod with baitcasting reel ?

3. I read somewhere on the board , something about that "backing" is required if using braided line ? I did not get this quite right, any thoughts on this ?

1. I use braid because I like the general lack of memory. Mono will come of the spool in coils. If there is any slack in the line when you retrieve, you will trap some of those coils, increasing the chance for a birdsnest.

2. The guides on a spinning rod are different and configured differently than on a baitcaster. The guides are aligned to come off a different reel. On a spinning reel, the spool is a good distance away from the blank (the actual material that the rod is made out of). On a baitcaster, the line comes off much tighter to the blank. Using a spinning rod with a baitcaster will rub the line on the inner edge of the guides. Also, The number of guides is different because spinning rods are designed to be fished guides down whereas baitcasting rods are designed to be fished guides up. The difference is, more guides are needed for a baitcaster to keep the line from contacting the blank when the rod is loaded/bent. This can cause line (especially braided line) to dig into and damage the blank and wear the guides more quickly.

3. I use backing not so much to reduce the amount of braid I use but instead to anchor the braid to the spool. Braid, because it doesn't stretch and is slippery, will slide ont eh spool. So, I anchor mono to the spool, the spool up enough mono to coat the base of teh spool reasonably well, then tie on to braid using a slim beauty knot.

[diggyj]

Teninchman gave you perfect instructions for a new user on a baitcast reel. Couldn't have said it better myself.

The only difference I would suggest is the brakes. I wouldn't put them all on at first, I think it is a bit to much friction on the line to learn how to use it. I would alternate the brakes, 1st one on, 2nd one off, 3rd one on, 4th one off, 5th one on, 6th one off.

Line definately use braid. Then just practice. tie something onto the end of your line like a sinker, or a medium sized screw and then go to the park or your backyard or the street and just start to cast. You will pick it up in no time.

Use this video as a tip to undo a birdsnest if you get one. It will not work for mono though. If you get a "FATAL" birdsnest/backlash with mono, you are pretty muched screwed, but it will work with braid. Trust me I know, even the seasoned veterans, with the slightest lack of concentration for a split second still get birdsnests.

http://www.bassfishi...how-to.php?v=13

Dirk....

Dirk..

[PainInTheBass]

One thing I didn't mention because I was not sure what type of braking system you have and how it is adjusted is regarding centrifugal brakes. If you manually set the brakes, make sure that they are set up so the brakes apply pressure in a balanced fashion around the spool.

Typically there are 6 pins. With all 6 pins on, they apply braking pressure evenly. The rudimentary diagram below depicts 6 pins engaged.

/
- o -
/
With 2 pins on, the pressure will depend on which 2 you engage. In this situation you would engage 2 pins opposite to each other such as below.


o


With 3 pins on, you would engage the following pins (This is the configuration that Diggy described).


o -
/

And so forth. This is to make sure that the balance is even on the spool as it spins. If the balance is off, this could affect the rotation of the spool, negatively affecting spool speed and casting distance.

If your brake controls are external (dials) then you don't have to worry about this.

Do what Diggy said and cast in a park for some time to practice. Instead of a weight (because if that thing comes off it is like a bullet, lol), what I did was remove the hooks on a relatively heavier lure that I did not use as much and therefore did not care about the finish on it, and casted with that thing. You get a feel also for how the air resitance of a lure can affect the cast and how you may have to compensate with a baitcaster.

[halleb]

Thank You guys, thank you all very very much! Good to hear from old and new members.
All your info, inputs and tips are helpful and very much appreciated !!!

Special thanks to teninchman who really went into great details and gave me valuable info.

It looks like that I have to go out now (no more excuses) and practice, practice, practice, practice, ...
But also, I think I should go for baitcasting rod too.

[diggyj]

You need a baitcasting rod. Can't use it on a spinning rod.

Dirk.....

[halleb]

One thing I didn't mention because I was not sure what type of braking system you have and how it is adjusted is regarding centrifugal brakes. If you manually set the brakes, make sure that they are set up so the brakes apply pressure in a balanced fashion around the spool.

Typically there are 6 pins. With all 6 pins on, they apply braking pressure evenly. The rudimentary diagram below depicts 6 pins engaged.

/
- o -
/
With 2 pins on, the pressure will depend on which 2 you engage. In this situation you would engage 2 pins opposite to each other such as below.


o


With 3 pins on, you would engage the following pins (This is the configuration that Diggy described).


o -
/

And so forth. This is to make sure that the balance is even on the spool as it spins. If the balance is off, this could affect the rotation of the spool, negatively affecting spool speed and casting distance.

If your brake controls are external (dials) then you don't have to worry about this.

Do what Diggy said and cast in a park for some time to practice. Instead of a weight (because if that thing comes off it is like a bullet, lol), what I did was remove the hooks on a relatively heavier lure that I did not use as much and therefore did not care about the finish on it, and casted with that thing. You get a feel also for how the air resitance of a lure can affect the cast and how you may have to compensate with a baitcaster.

Special thanks teninchman for all your help! I think I am getting what you are saying here.

To give you more info: Reel is Quantum Accurist AC 501 PT. Instruction manual on the product is not nearly as descriptive as I would have liked.
Anyways, in regard to braking system - this is what it says in the manual:

" Quantum introduces first "externally adjustable" centrifugal cast control system to bring baitcasting to new level of performance and ease. this exclusive cast control system allows 9 brake weights to be turned on or off in increments of three by using by using dial on palm-side cover. The settings include FREE (free spool with no weights on), "1 dot" (3 weights on) , "2 dot" (6 weights on) and "3 dot" (all 9 weights on) . "

I also included 2 photos below:

[jc53]

Yep
That is what I thought there are no brakes on the Quantums. Just the external dial.
Found that out when I took mine apart.

BTW: did you get the reel at BPS?

Jose

[halleb]

Yep
That is what I thought there are no brakes on the Quantums. Just the external dial.
Found that out when I took mine apart.

BTW: did you get the reel at BPS?

Jose

Yes I did, I get it on weekend. Did not really plan on buying baitcasting reel, just to check it out, but it turned out (long story) that opportunity came up that I simply could not pass on such great deal.

[jc53]

Nice
That was a great deal, I hear that there were a lot of people who did not get one.

When I first started using baitcasters I was using mono. After so many frustrating days I changed over to braid.
It makes the birdsnests much easier to handle.
Follow the instructions as sugg. by the guys and practice, pratice, practice.
Start by using a heavier weight until you get your thumb trained to feather the spool.
Alway pay attention to the flight of your lure and as soon as it hits the water use your thumb to stop the spool from overrunning.
Try not to cast into the wind, it will cause major overruns. The spool will not slow down fast enough
Also use a smooth backcast not a jerky motion
Check to see behind u to make sure you do not catch a branch behind you. This will cause another overun(many times I have done this)
I have reached the point as that I am comforatble casting a float and a roe bag. Using my 10 1/2ft St. Croix Avid and my Daiwa Steez.
I will be frustrating but keep at it.
Jose

[PainInTheBass]

jc53 made a good point that I neglected to mention - the backswing.

The cast with a baitcaster is a whole different thing than on a spinning reel. With a spinning reel, you can simply cock back, let the rod load up (bend) and then sling shot it forward. This is not so with a baitcaster. If you do this with a baitcaster, what happens is that the rod loads, but as the lure slingshots forward, all tension on the line is lost. As the lure moves forward through the air, the line becomes taut again and the lure suddenly jerks the spool into motion. When this happens, the energy of the slingshot is lost in overcoming the inertia required to start the spool spinning. The lure then slows down almost immediately after the spool start going at top speed, resulting in a backlash. This is true when pitching (underhand casting) as well, and probably more easily observed. If you pitch your lure on slack line, it will go as far as it can before the spool starts spinning then the lure will fall flat right there. If you keep taut line, the lure will fly further.

The trick I found to casting relatively consistently is to let around 6" of line plus the lure dangle from the tip of the rod. If you point the tip of the rod directly away from you, you should be holding the rod and reel so that the open face of the reel (spool side) is sideways, your hand should be palm down with your thumb directly out to the side. More than anything, this allows your wrist a greater range of motion as you bring the rod back and then follow through.

There is not as much of a snap in the wrist as much as a smooth follow through as you bring the casting hand back, bend the wrist (like a free throw in basketball), then initiate the cast by rotating your forearm forward at the elbow, then following through forward with your wrist (again, just as you would a free throw in basketball). What this motion does is make sure that the lure travels like a pendulum, using centrifugal motion to keep the lure pulling consistently on the line, and the line taut. You then release your thumb (you should have pressed the butten and been thumbing the spool during all of this) just before the end of your casting motion. This initiates the rotation of the spool to accelerate in sync with the acceleration of the lure, and avoids the loss of energy caused by the slack line using the slingshot effect.

The trick to remember is to try and keep the line taut at all times during the cast. At least that is what has worked for me. I hope that helped, although it may have just confused. Please let me know and I can try to explain it more clearly.

[halleb]

jc53 made a good point that I neglected to mention - the backswing.

The cast with a baitcaster is a whole different thing than on a spinning reel. With a spinning reel, you can simply cock back, let the rod load up (bend) and then sling shot it forward. This is not so with a baitcaster. If you do this with a baitcaster, what happens is that the rod loads, but as the lure slingshots forward, all tension on the line is lost. As the lure moves forward through the air, the line becomes taut again and the lure suddenly jerks the spool into motion. When this happens, the energy of the slingshot is lost in overcoming the inertia required to start the spool spinning. The lure then slows down almost immediately after the spool start going at top speed, resulting in a backlash. This is true when pitching (underhand casting) as well, and probably more easily observed. If you pitch your lure on slack line, it will go as far as it can before the spool starts spinning then the lure will fall flat right there. If you keep taut line, the lure will fly further....

Thanks You! This is very informative and very helpfull

[halleb]

Thank you Jose (jc53) & teninchman !

I think this was the last piece of the "puzzle" that I was missing (info on swing, back swing, keeping the line taut).

Now it is up to me to practice and to make this work for me ....