disgusted

I was fishing at port credit today when this old Asian man snags a really big carp with a spoon. It was only an accident so things were cool. No problem. The fish was really big. I mean really big. Looked like a female around 30lbs and he lands it in front of an audience, but after he removes the hook he pulls out a knife and stabs it in the gills then lets it go. Like WTF!? What the hell was he thinking? I don't think I even want to know. I just hope the fish survived the injury...

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is there any way to report things like that and ensure those guys get the punishment they deserve???

Maybe if there were pictures of the incident, a report could have been made to MNR...
but its hard to expect a person to do something like that and have a camera ready at the moment...

if he did not purposely intend to snag the carp with the spoon...i find that hard believe based on the following actions.
but in his mind maybe he believes the carp are getting big and fat eating trout eggs....
he values the trout and hates the carp as he sees no value to them.
all things said he is still wrong.
you gotta know your place among all living things.
he is playing god by deciding what species live or die
next time take his pic and then report to mnr
they will eventually run into him fishing....
if he has a drivers lic they can match the pic
go to his address and question him.
he will think twice next time

You are right, disgusting! What that guy did was illegal and unethical. To deliberately wound an animal so that it dies slowly is some kind of sick act. Shame on him and shame on people that promote that type of thinking. It is too bad that people that do things like that are not punished .

I don't think trout eggs were the motive. I could tell his real reason was likely more disturbing in nature. That's what bothered me the most about it.

have seen a similar thing. It seems stabbing the animal with a knife has become an instinctual thing for them. They catch it and the brain (?) orders them to stab it!

Well Carp do possess every characteristic of an invasive species. They outcompete native species and reproduce at an alarming rate, not to mention the damage they do to vegetation water quality and spawning habitat. If everyone did what that guy did the overall result would be a reduction in their population and an improvement to the fishery, many species would benefit. Carp are just as destructive as gobies and snakeheads.

What is truly DISGUSTING is that Carp are no longer considered invasive, I guess that's politics for ya. From what I can see through my communication with the invasive species hotline (a MNR endorsed service) and aquatic biologists common carp are still considered very invasive. I would bet that if an MNR officer witnessed this the angler would not receive a fine as this angler is doing a service to the fishery. Would everyone be so horrified if he did the same a snakehead or a Goby?

The people who scream the loudest aren't always right.

NADO said:

Well Carp do possess every characteristic of an invasive species. They outcompete native species and reproduce at an alarming rate, not to mention the damage they do to vegetation water quality and spawning habitat. If everyone did what that guy did the overall result would be a reduction in their population and an improvement to the fishery, many species would benefit. Carp are just as destructive as gobies and snakeheads.

What is truly DISGUSTING is that Carp are no longer considered invasive, I guess that's politics for ya. From what I can see through my communication with the invasive species hotline (a MNR endorsed service) and aquatic biologists common carp are still considered very invasive. I would bet that if an MNR officer witnessed this the angler would not receive a fine as this angler is doing a service to the fishery. Would everyone be so horrified if he did the same a snakehead or a Goby?

The people who scream the loudest aren't always right.

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It is an invasive species but,
when a fish is invasive like gobies or carp you kill it in a humane way you don't just stab the gills and throw it back in the water. Thats like puncturing someones lungs and leaving them there. There should be a regulation on how to put away invasive species.

salmonfisher said:

It is an invasive species but,
when a fish is invasive like gobies or carp you kill it in a humane way you don't just stab the gills and throw it back in the water. Thats like puncturing someones lungs and leaving them there. There should be a regulation on how to put away invasive species.

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That's a fair point, he also shouldn't put it back in the water either if that was his intention.

i love fishing for all species yeah i have my favourite and its the bowfin...2nd oldest species in our lakes...bet ya didn't know that....
talk about politics...brown trout are an invasive species introduced by man
but so were the four forms of asian carp....so were the common carp
funny thing brown trout and common carp are the two hardest fish in ontario to target to catch based on their intellegence and survival instincts.
i like fishing for both....
for me to kill one species to save the other is wrong in my little world...i wouldn't....
if i had seen the guy killing carp like i have in the videos of the american's asian carp fishing like road warriors then there would have been
a floating body of a fisherman drown in the river....but eh thats my opinion....i once put a guy in a coma for three months for shooting a gun at my employees and customers
and my paid duty police officers.so i guess yeah i might save the meek from the predator but only within my species ......

salmonfisher said:

It is an invasive species but,
when a fish is invasive like gobies or carp you kill it in a humane way you don't just stab the gills and throw it back in the water. Thats like puncturing someones lungs and leaving them there. There should be a regulation on how to put away invasive species.

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No common carp are not considered an invasive species in Ontario. You are wrong my friend both from the legal aspect ie the Fishing Regulations and from the scientific aspect. The regs list invasive species the common carp in not listed. They regs also state that it is illegal to have live invasive species in your possession, you can possess live carp. The Guide to Invasive Species in Ontario clearly states the the common carp has been here for so long ( approaching 150 years ) that it is impossible to measure their impact on other fish and the environment. It specifically states that they are not interested in reports on common carp. This guide was created to give professionals , that is scientists and techs an aid in identifying invasive species.
What that man did was against the law and unethical. Any decent person can see that. Rain bow was right to be disgusted.I would never let keyboard bullies sway my opinion on what is right and what is wrong.

hammercarp said:

No common carp are not considered an invasive species in Ontario. You are wrong my friend both from the legal aspect ie the Fishing Regulations and from the scientific aspect. The regs list invasive species the common carp in not listed. They regs also state that it is illegal to have live invasive species in your possession, you can possess live carp. The Guide to Invasive Species in Ontario clearly states the the common carp has been here for so long ( approaching 150 years ) that it is impossible to measure their impact on other fish and the environment. It specifically states that they are not interested in reports on common carp. This guide was created to give professionals , that is scientists and techs an aid in identifying invasive species.
What that man did was against the law and unethical. Any decent person can see that. Rain bow was right to be disgusted.I would never let keyboard bullies sway my opinion on what is right and what is wrong.

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That's not the point. Invasive or non invasive no one should be doing such a cruel thing.

Yes tangledline I believe your right. Killing one to save another is not a good thing to do. It's unfortunate some don't see that

salmonfisher said:

That's not the point. Invasive or non invasive no one should be doing such a cruel thing.

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I understand your point of view and I agree. I would also like to point out that if there were people in the crowd that were watching this guy that were Animal Rights Activists or had sympathy for that misguided cause, he just gave them even more reason to believe they are right. The truth is there is a large segment of the population that could not care less about what we do as anglers. Guys that think and act like the stabber just hurt all of us who fish.

hammercarp said:

I understand your point of view and I agree. I would also like to point out that if there were people in the crowd that were watching this guy that were Animal Rights Activists or had sympathy for that misguided cause, he just gave them even more reason to believe they are right. The truth is there is a large segment of the population that could not care less about what we do as anglers. Guys that think and act like the stabber just hurt all of us who fish.

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i agree 100%

The more I fall in love with this sport, the more it sickens me.. The species is a mute point in my eyes, sure if someone did that to a steelhead or brown or pike or musky maybe it would send more waves around the community but the simple and vicious act that was done infront of a crowd no less is inexcusable and incomprehensible, it has to be close to a first timer salmon fishing Bronte and watching guys bring the salmon on shore, cut its belly (female or not), harvest any eggs and then toss the carcass on the bank in a pile.

I love this sport, I live sport and to me nothing beats sitting by a creek, pond or lake in the middle of nowhere, just you and nature. No cars, no trucks, no city lights in the distance, no horns or buzzers or beeper, just the sound of the trickling creek and wildlife to break the silence. But to hear stories of people stabbing the gills of a fish and then releasing it, throwing trout on a fire and seeing snaggers who have no moral decency makes me wonder what this world's coming to.

hammercarp said:

The Guide to Invasive Species in Ontario clearly states the the common carp has been here for so long ( approaching 150 years ) that it is impossible to measure their impact on other fish and the environment.

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Pleeeeeeeease, there is TONS of documented information on the catastrophic damage carp do to fisheries and wetlands. Even the guide you reference that says they are not classified as invasive speaks of the catastrophic damage they cause. The only reason it is difficult to measure is because of how severe the damage actually is. Professionals all across the industry agree on the damage that carp cause to fisheries, you are the only professional in the industry I have ever spoken to that thinks otherwise. Do you actually believe/teach your students that carp don’t cause damage to the fishery/wetlands/aquatic insects? I have spoken to representatives of the guide to invasive species, biologists who work for environmental agencies and a few people at tradeshows bringing awareness about invasive species and ALL of them support the belief that Carp should be classified as an invasive species.

The representative of the invasive species guide recommended that in the meantime these fish should not be euthanized as it is technically a violation of the regulations but to be patient as that classification is being questioned. Politics, politics, politics…..I just don’t have the time to push this issue.

Rain-Bow said:

Yes tangledline I believe your right. Killing one to save another is not a good thing to do. It's unfortunate some don't see that

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What about snakeheads? Would you not kill them? Gobies?

Many people can benefit from reading some of this publication. Below is a small exert from the Common Carp section that identifies some of the damage Common Carp cause, they do much worse than this guide states as well. There are countless environmental agencies that fight to restore and maintain the biodiversity that our fishery depends on. It may be hard to stomach at times and yes some people need to be educated on how to do it properly. If everyone involved were to adopt the attitude displayed in this thread gobies, snakehead, garlic mustard, giant hogweed etc. etc. would dominate everything and we would have a HUGE problem on our hands.

I think the biggest problem right now is awareness, people just don’t realize how big of a problem invasive species actually are. There should be wayyyy more taxpayer $ assigned to this issue. Get Harper out of office and NEVER let the conservatives back again.

“Impacts: Because its establishment predates many of the
earliest fish surveys, the impact of Common Carp upon
native fish assemblages in Ontario is difficult to assess1.
In other regions, substantial and varied negative impacts
have been documented. Feeding activity uproots aquatic
plants, reducing food and breeding habitat for native
invertebrates, birds and fishes9. The associated disturbance
of bottom sediments may increase turbidity and further
inhibit plant growth. Larval carp may compete with native
fish species for zooplankton9. Adults compete with native
fishes for benthic invertebrate prey. Predation on eggs of
native fishes may adversely impact prey populations.”

Key words "substantial" "negative"

http://www.invadingspecies.com/
Check out pg 88 of the guide for info on Common Carp

NADO said:

Well Carp do possess every characteristic of an invasive species. They outcompete native species and reproduce at an alarming rate, not to mention the damage they do to vegetation water quality and spawning habitat. If everyone did what that guy did the overall result would be a reduction in their population and an improvement to the fishery, many species would benefit. Carp are just as destructive as gobies and snakeheads.

What is truly DISGUSTING is that Carp are no longer considered invasive, I guess that's politics for ya. From what I can see through my communication with the invasive species hotline (a MNR endorsed service) and aquatic biologists common carp are still considered very invasive. I would bet that if an MNR officer witnessed this the angler would not receive a fine as this angler is doing a service to the fishery. Would everyone be so horrified if he did the same a snakehead or a Goby?

The people who scream the loudest aren't always right.

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Nado, you have strayed from the point, which is that what this guy did was truely cruel and disgusting. Maybe someone should have put a knife through his gills. :evil: .
If you want to get in a discussion about native species to Ontario, tell me which of the following are native to On. Brown Trout, Rainbow Trout, Steelhead or any of the Pacific Salmon Species? The answer would be that none of them are native to On. Not that anyone would call them invasive.
Our native types of Trout in On are Brookies, Lakers and the Aurora. The only Salmon that came to spawn in On. rivers was the Atlantic.

Carp are not considered invasive anymore. The MNR even has some regs. and seasons about bow fishing for them on the books. They are well established and killing one fish will only result in their population being reduced by one fish. The Royal Botanical Garden here in Hamilton constructed a "Carp Exclusion Barrier" (LOL), years ago to keep Carp out of Cootes Paradise. As a regular at Cootes, I can tell you the reason I typed LOL, it doesn't work. Carp are here to stay and many enjoy fishing for them in urban areas where there is not much else to catch.

Not trying to start any fires here, I'm just stating the facts.

Alfie.