88 replies to this topic

[tangledline]

[tangledline]

[NADO]

.

[mikeh]

Wow....... Darwin was right then.....

[ChaseChrome]

Can't wait for the run in the fall, if only to have done with this bow hunting/fishing nonsense...

[JimCanuck]

There is also a second reason. It is bow fishing's dirty little secret and why BF'rs want to remain under the radar. They don't eat their catch. Most just dump the dead fish over the side or into a ditch on the way home.

See this is the problem, just like the initial posting of the picture, when you got a response other then what ever stereotype you came up with in your head, you cried foul and had efka come in and clean up the thread. You cannot handle the thought that someone thinks differently then you do, or does differently then you think they do.

My point at the beginning of the thread ends up coming full circle and the mindset,

And next thing we do, we will make sections so that every race of fisherman can be segregated away too?

See, while you may not have understood what I meant by that, you clearly are demonstrating that line of thinking. If you don't agree with something push it away by removing it (you and efka's moderation when you didn't get the answer you wanted), after that doesn't work there is a attempt at segregating it (what this thread is about), the continued harass the people who think differently (this thread and the posts on this forum in other topics about Bow Fishing). And when all else fails, go full circle and continue to state your unfounded beliefs.

This method of attacking someone, or something you do not agree with, is bigotry, something that is commonly found within people who are racist, homophobic, sexist, etc. Hence my initial reply, which thanks you to your last post you went full circle back to the initial reasons why that thread was moderated.

Congratulations, you still just ended up proving my point for me with your words. Perhaps you need to look inside of you and find a way to be accepting of others without resorting to these tactics.

Jim

[hammercarp]

See this is the problem, just like the initial posting of the picture, when you got a response other then what ever stereotype you came up with in your head, you cried foul and had efka come in and clean up the thread. You cannot handle the thought that someone thinks differently then you do, or does differently then you think they do.

My point at the beginning of the thread ends up coming full circle and the mindset,



See, while you may not have understood what I meant by that, you clearly are demonstrating that line of thinking. If you don't agree with something push it away by removing it (you and efka's moderation when you didn't get the answer you wanted), after that doesn't work there is a attempt at segregating it (what this thread is about), the continued harass the people who think differently (this thread and the posts on this forum in other topics about Bow Fishing). And when all else fails, go full circle and continue to state your unfounded beliefs.

This method of attacking someone, or something you do not agree with, is bigotry, something that is commonly found within people who are racist, homophobic, sexist, etc. Hence my initial reply, which thanks you to your last post you went full circle back to the initial reasons why that thread was moderated.

Congratulations, you still just ended up proving my point for me with your words. Perhaps you need to look inside of you and find a way to be accepting of others without resorting to these tactics.

Jim

Your statements are completely wrong . On Yanni's post I asked " So what did it taste like?" This question assumes he ate it not the other way around. This is twice you have tried to put words in my mouth that I did not speak. Bigotry? Racism? That is complete nonsense. Is this a Johnny Cochrane defense or what. Carp angling is a sport enjoyed around the world by people of many different counties and cultures. I participate and enjoy angling stories people from all over the planet. That is a low unwarranted statement. This is not the first time you guys have stooped to personal attacks on me.
But then again I guess that is all you've got when it comes down to it.
I am not the one going in circles. Your excuse for logic is.

[JimCanuck]

On Yanni's post I asked " So what did it taste like?" This question assumes he ate it not the other way around.

To which his reply, and your post, were immediately reported as being "off topic" and erased from said thread. The Bow Fishing itself was deleted afterwords. Why because between you and efka his response that he didn't waste the fish was unsatisfactory? That the delusion must be kept correct that Bow Fishermen only waste what they catch? Which is the point you come back to over and over again, on this thread, elsewhere. That Bow Fishermen only waste their catch, do not eat it, let it spoil, and therefore should be segregated away from "real fishing".

That is a low unwarranted statement.

Its clearly the mind of a bigot when you can only run in circles coming back to that one stereotypical point of "Bow fishermen waste their catch" as being your biggest argument and reasoning behind segregating bow fishing to its own section. And the pattern through these threads, clearly show that your actions and words, are in line with a typical style of thinking, when it comes to removing and oppressing a view that isn't your own, and the constant repetition of a point which has little to do with the issue at hand. These are all very clear signs of bigotry on your part.

See, if NADO, Yanni, or any of the other people who have expressed interest in Bow Fishing came out instead of you and claimed that there should be a bow fishing section, that would be reasonable. However, when someone who is against it, wants to segregate it, and compartmentalize it because it offends their "sensibilities" such as you, it is clearly not a positive direction to take. As a bigot will not simply avoid a topic, nor will they let it go once it goes into the shadows. Which has been proven time and again here, that the people who are not interesting in bow fishing cannot leave well enough alone, causing arguments and disruption in threads clearly marked bow fishing, or starting topics such as this one in a attempt to polarize the membership here into believing your views.

Fact is, your only goal on these boards, is to spread CAG, and to make people feel good about carp fishing and releasing them back into the water, as well as marginalize anyone who says otherwise, which you've been doing long before Bow Fishing became a issue.

I won't even mention such idiotic ideas that you've advocated here in the past ... wait too late ...

I am a long time angler and hunter here in Ontario, as well as being a member in good standing in the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters. I am also a chairman of the Carp Anglers Group . I have just finished reading an article from the State of Michigan regarding Asian carp. I have attached a link to that article. It was written in a very reputable news paper.
I would like to propose that Ontario do something similar.
Here is my proposal.
Large quantities of live Asian carp can be shipped here from the Mississippi system in the United States. They can be stocked in specific lakes and or ponds here. Only really big fish should be imported.

Jim

[hammercarp]

"I am a long time angler and hunter here in Ontario, as well as being a member in good standing in the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters. I am also a chairman of the Carp Anglers Group . I have just finished reading an article from the State of Michigan regarding Asian carp. I have attached a link to that article. It was written in a very reputable news paper.
I would like to propose that Ontario do something similar.
Here is my proposal.
Large quantities of live Asian carp can be shipped here from the Mississippi system in the United States. They can be stocked in specific lakes and or ponds here. Only really big fish should be imported."

That is extremely dishonest of you to only quote part of that post. To those that read it all they understood that it was written in jest. That's a joke son, a joke. Dishonesty is a sign of desperation, don't cha know.

"Which is the point you come back to over and over again, on this thread, elsewhere. That Bow Fishermen only waste their catch, do not eat it, let it spoil, and therefore should be segregated away from "real fishing". "

I don't recall repeating that over and over again as you stated. So if you could please show me the posts where I repeatedly said that I would appreciate it and so would others that are reading this thread. I never said bowfishing wasn't fishing. That is ludicrous. I said it wasn't angling.


Fact is, your only goal on these boards, is to spread CAG, and to make people feel good about carp fishing and releasing them back into the water, as well as marginalize anyone who says otherwise, which you've been doing long before Bow Fishing became a issue.


" to make people feel good about carp fishing and releasing them back into the water" Well isn't that just a horrible thing to do. Helping people to feel good about fishing , How could I commit such a terrible act? I am afraid I am incorrigible and way beyond redemption. I plead guilty and make no statement in my defense. As to the rest of that onerous statement . I don't have to marginalize anybody nor do I plan to, they do it to themselves.

"See, if NADO, Yanni, or any of the other people who have expressed interest in Bow Fishing came out instead of you and claimed that there should be a bow fishing section, that would be reasonable"

You don't expect anyone to buy that do you? Honestly? So if you and the chosen few come up with an idea, it is great! But if someone else comes up with the same idea it is horribly bad,
Come on, that statement is unbelievably bigoted. So now who's come full circle.

[tangledline]

i shared this thread with the carp....they really liked the pics of the bowfishermen who had accidents.....it made them just want go tangle with some more bowfishermen.carpmania has occurred on this forum....more carp fishing posts than salmon and trout combined....yes carp have become this sites favourite fish.....Game over!!! carp have won the Most Popular Fish Cup!!!!!

[ChaseChrome]

i shared this thread with the carp....they really liked the pics of the bowfishermen who had accidents.....it made them just want go tangle with some more bowfishermen.carpmania has occurred on this forum....more carp fishing posts than salmon and trout combined....yes carp have become this sites favourite fish.....Game over!!! carp have won the Most Popular Fish Cup!!!!!

Awesome--let's put this to bed then and get on with the real stuff of dreams, angry steel....

[tangledline]

fish slime covered hand reaches out to you as well.....peace?

[BCLT]

I think your reading the wrong statistic, the one your thinking of is a 62% survival rate for fish that are out of the water for 30 seconds for a quick unhooking and picture. After 60 seconds, so you can get that picture perfect shot, your looking at a mere 28% survival rate. At which point there is no point even throwing it back into the water, your wasting 2 out of every 3 fish you release.

So unless you got a link, from a VALID source, I'm going to call BS on your statistic.

Jim

Your stats are way off my friend.......... and I wont even waste my time explaining why, cause your ignorant to say the least!

Ps - to all the chrome lovers, and carp haters.......... If someone was to post pictures of them bow "FISHING" bows, and browns......what would your response be.......hating bow "FISHING" is not about hating people who dont nessessarily treat carp with care and love that us carp anglers do.......its about a blatent disrespect for life......all for fun, and killing. If you want to shoot bows, use a practice target or if you really need food, hunt. Killing fish for fun is not sportmen like in any way.

Additionally - attacking lorne for asking a simple question regarding seperate sections is pretty immature, and lame at best. Lorne is a true embassador of angling and carp angling..........to say the least!

And as for the pictures with the arrows in the hand............thats a good representation of the mentality of the people behind the bows................simple as that!

[JimCanuck]

Yah, I wondered when the CAG trolls would show up ... I was surprised it took so long for hammercarp to start to talk about this discussion over there, but not surprised when his first posts on CAG - Ontario only took a few hours to get the first troll on this board.

In case anyone on OFF are wondering what I'm talking about .... http://www.carpangle...showtopic=48811

Apparently this quote is part of his signature now.

"Fact is, your only goal on these boards, is to spread CAG, and to make people feel good about carp fishing and releasing them back into the water, as well as marginalize anyone who says otherwise, which you've been doing long before Bow Fishing became a issue."

Jim

[hammercarp]

Yah, I wondered when the CAG trolls would show up ... I was surprised it took so long for hammercarp to start to talk about this discussion over there, but not surprised when his first posts on CAG - Ontario only took a few hours to get the first troll on this board.

In case anyone on OFF are wondering what I'm talking about .... http://www.carpangle...showtopic=48811

Apparently this quote is part of his signature now.



Jim

Jim , you have done more name calling than anyone else on this board. Anyone that disagrees with you is immature, a bigot and a troll to repeat some of what you have said. You stated that the only reason you are against a bow fishing section is because some one outside" the chosen circle" suggested it. You have stated as fact your version of the fishing regulations that are completely wrong even though you admit your understanding of the English language is not good. You have falsely accused a Conservation Officer of promoting the breaking of the Fishing Regulations. You have tried to put words in my mouth that I did not speak. I'll explain that last statement to you. You have attributed statements to me that I did not make.
You have done all this and worse in order to oppose some anglers that just want to fish and have fun. They want to go out there and catch fish and if they choose not to eat them then release them in accordance with our fishing regulations. And you wonder why they fight back? They want to be able to post their catches and share information on this forum without some one throwing in pictures of arrowed fish just because they used the words carp and fishing in their post. Man give your head a shake and clear it of all the misconceptions and nonsense you have filled it with. Jim you can lurk on the CAG forum all you want. All you will see is a bunch of people enjoying a great sport not goosestepping on others necks in order to get them to think the way you want them to.

[JimCanuck]

They want to be able to post their catches and share information on this forum without some one throwing in pictures of arrowed fish just because they used the words carp and fishing in their post.

Again, the ONLY thread that had a bow fishing picture thrown into that was not specifically bow fishing, the original poster did not mind and in fact was interested in bow fishing.

Let me quote him ...

The common carp that Yanni initially posted had a bow in it, which is how the thread eventually got to bow fishing. Perhaps someone missed that? In any case, seemed on topic to me.

See? This is the problem I have with you, and your fellow CAG membership. Just like this thread, starting a problem where one doesn't exist. You would have not heard a word from me if you let the issue dropped, but instead you took your issues with what happened in that thread, spread them out to TWO more threads, and then claim a holier then thou attitude when people disagree with you.

Do you see the problem with your actions? The fact is, the situation ENDED on June 13th when Yanni decided to post separately to talk about it, as after what happened in Salmotrutta's thread, the reasonable people such, moved the conversation in its own threads not to offend your "sensibilities" again. You then turned around and continued to make bow fishing its own separate issue, with this thread.

So really what do you expect? If your going to cause problems after a situation ended, weeks after for that matter, and you expect everyone to shut up and accept your opinion? I'm sorry, but clearly your not thinking normally.

Mind you, I want to point out some irony.

You have attributed statements to me that I did not make.

You say that I make statements that you did not make about you. And yet in the same paragraph you do the same thing about me.

you admit your understanding of the English language is not good.

While I might consider English my third language, having learned French and Greek first in my life, I never once said I was not good at English. I do believe my statement was relating to the fact that simple definitions of English words such as "Angling" and "Fishing" which have 2 distinct different meanings, are known to me, whether or not English is my third language, where as people who claim to know better English then myself have a hard time understanding such simple issues within the language.

So who is attributing words into another persons mouth now?

Jim

[hammercarp]

You did not stop but carried on afterwards on the shoutbox. The reasoning you used on the shoutbox was one of the problems. You were trying to give yourselves license to do the same thing again. You also foolishly let NADO drag you into his crusade against carp. You accuse me of starting a problem were none exists . No problem existed until the bowfishing trolling started. When the mods acted on it , you cried and whined about it. Only when you realized that you had no choice did the other post get put up.

I do not expect people to shut up. Who the heck started this thread inviting discussion in the first place. This thread invites people, even you, to discuss the issue. Another attempt by you to attribute statements to me that I did not make. Where do you get this stuff from? Your statements have been proven weak and or false and you have resorted to personal attacks as a result of it so now you want to accuse me of trying to shut you up. Jim when someone tells me that 1 + 1 = 3 and I tell them they are wrong I am not trying to tell them to shut up. I am telling them they are wrong.

I attribute your lack of understanding of English to the fact that you do not comprehend the laws you quoted, your continued use of the word bigot where it does not apply and your inabilty to understand that calling someone these names is highly offensive and is considered a personal attack which is forbidden on this forum. I attributed this behavior to ignorance . I was in fact giving you the benefit of the doubt. I was giving you a break.

[hammercarp]

I want to add something more . When I set up this thread and the poll I made the choice to have the results public. That means everybody knows who voted and what their vote was. If you had chosen to have your bowfishing section you would be safe from trolling and attacks by the members that voted for it. You would have been able to say " Hey you voted for this section and now you are causing problems" The admin and mods would back you up. I was offering you "the olive branch". Instead you chose to fight.
Either you lack the cognitive abilities to see this or you just want to cause trouble.

[JimCanuck]

No problem existed until the bowfishing trolling started. When the mods acted on it , you cried and whined about it.

The posts were very civil in that thread, you asked if Yanni ate the fish, he responded truthfully that he did and his opinion on carp, NADO asked where you can get bow fishing gear, I responded to him politely. Then you and Blair started the fight with anti-bow fishing comments, and about your holier then thou C&R policies on them, and when the conversation wasn't going your way, your post, and Yanni's post were deleted, then a few hours later the discussion on bow fishing itself and Yanni's original picture was deleted.

There was no trolling, no uncivilized discussion till after you and Blair started to attack the method of fishing shown in the picture. There was no problem until your little "group" cried foul to efka and had posts deleted cause you all didn't agree with the posts. The original poster on that thread was perfectly fine with the discussion on bow fishing.

What is hard to understand? If you don't agree with something MOVE ON, or have a civil discussion, but when you cannot leave well enough alone and decide to attack others, people will not stand for it. Especially when you try to use moderation on these threads to get what you want, I'm sorry but using biased moderation by efka only proves how low your little "group" will go, to suppress things you do not like.

I was offering you "the olive branch".

No there is no olive branch. You really are delusional it seems. Segregation of sections that are not to your, or anyone else's liking is NEVER a valid reason to produce a separate section on a forum, or anywhere else for that matter.

Just because you do not agree with something, or a group of people doesn't mean you have any right to firstly demand they be segregated away, and secondly you have no right to expect to have your desire for segregation be accepted by the group your trying to push in a corner. You, by pushing the idea of having a separate bow fishing section is no different then White Supremacists wanting segregated school systems again.

Its the same reason why when African Canadians wanted Afri-centric schools in the city it made sense, they wanted a free open method of sharing their history and culture without being pushed, if for example Yanni or NADO asked for a bow fishing section, it would make sense, however while your little "group" cannot be civil about bow fishing, and you want to segregate it away, the people interested in bow fishing did not want a seperate section as they felt there was no need. If there was a need they'd ask for it. What do you think would have happened if a bunch of White Supremacists asked the TDSB for seperate schools for African Canadians? Don't you think, although it might be a good idea for the reasons the schools were actually started in the city, the African Canadians of the city would stand for it? I don't think so. It is not a olive branch, its bigoted segregation of people because you do not agree or like them.

Jim

[hammercarp]

So now I am a racist. A white supremist! More hateful name calling and personal attacks by you. A new low has been achieved on this board. I honestly don't know where you get this stuff from. What the heck does one have to do with the other. That is really sick .To take a discussion on fishing and turn it into this kind of garbage it is beyond belief. By resorting to this type of personal attack you have admitted you are wrong. Why else stoop that low. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I did not demand anything , I opened a discussion and a poll .