88 replies to this topic

[JimCanuck]

More hateful name calling and personal attacks by you.

I did not call you anything, simply stating that your pushing of de jure segregation based soley on your need to push bow fishing and people who support it in its own section is very similar to what they do.

De jure segregation is NEVER acceptable. And this is what this poll, and what the actions of you and your group did in the original thread, continued it onto Yanni's thread is. By pushing (constant attacks on people for supporting bow fishing which is a valid legal method of fishing in Ontario), so called "helping others" (aka your so called "olive branch", which is anything but that), and through the law (or in this case thread moderation) its a clear attempt at de jure segregation.

De facto segregation, which would be if NADO, Yanni, or anyone else who wants to talk bow fishing asked for a separate section, aka voluntarily segregation, is acceptable and done often by many people, especially minority groups so they can feel comfortable with their own (Such as China Town, Danforth Greek town, Little Italy etc).

People who push de jure segregation, such as yourself, are very similar, sure the topic is different, but its always the same root cause, bigotry. So if you'd like I'd compare you to another such group of bigots who support de jure segregation if you wish?

Jim

[hammercarp]

I will not give legitimacy to the type of crap your are peddling by discussing it with you. End of story. I expect an apology from you .

[JimCanuck]

I will not give legitimacy to the type of crap your are peddling by discussing it with you. End of story. I expect an apology from you .

I think I just hit a nerve.

Jim

[hammercarp]

No you did not., nausea was all you invoked. How many others have you intimidated with that crap. "Agree with me or you are a bigot, do as I want or you are a racist, let it be my way or I will compare you to a white supremacist." That is just sick.

[JimCanuck]

No you did not., nausea was all you invoked. How many others have you intimidated with that crap. "Agree with me or you are a bigot, do as I want or you are a racist, let it be my way or I will compare you to a white supremacist." That is just sick.

Never actually, never had a reason to, but the shoe fits in this case. Bigotry describes you and your little groups actions well so far. Especially your large push for segregation of a group who has since the start of the thread said they do not wish to be segregated away.

First trying to trap Yanni into saying he wasted the fish, didn't get the response you like, so you cry foul to efka, using the "rule of law" against bow fishing, typical sign of de jure segregation. Then trying to force segregation yet again by posting this thread so you can have the excuse to say "see people want separate sections!" whether or not the people involved in bow fishing want it. When you finally realized that backfired you turn around and try to say its a "olive branch", and its all the other groups "fault" for not being understanding.

Typical responses and attitudes of a bigot, lots of people who had the power to forcefully push people away in history have used similar reasoning you've attempted to use, "Its for the best for everyone if we do this", "It will allow everyone to be happy", "Don't you see, if you agree to this the problems will stop and no one will bother you again" and other crap, but the result is always the same in the end. The USSR's forced relocations of minorities and political dissidents into the Gulag system is one example of this in recent history.

Lots of other people have acted in similar manner, and people today still act that way, including yourself. It is not acceptable.

PS. to make something perfectly clear, I used the white supremacist as a analogy of bigotry, which you are clearly displaying, I did not call you a white supremacist.

Jim

[efka]

this is going nowhere....

JimCanuck, i don't know you personally, but from your hundred posts this is what i noticed:
you are not here to learn anything since you claim you know everything;
you haven't shared any reports with members of this forum;
more people complained about you than i ever remember;

what was the reason you joined this forum?

[staffman]

I think the expression, " thick as a brick" could describe Jim.

[JimCanuck]

efka, I'll tell you a little secret, I've never been bow fishing, and if I do it might be once, and I highly doubt I'll buy the equipment. But hammercarp's reasoning, his actions, and your actions so far when it comes to bow fishing is despicable.

I might be relatively new here, and do not post much, but that is not the cause in every forum I visit. I've been on web forums since 2004, and since that time I've only called out 2 people, a anti-hunting, anti-gun troll on a hunting site I visit, and hammercarp.

During that time I've also been a moderator and/or admin off and on more times I can count, and NOT ONCE have I moderated a post or thread because of the squeaky wheel as you have, that is biased moderation, and I do not know about this forum, but every other forum I've been on, if a moderator or admin does that they are typically banned, never mind have their moderator privileges removed.

A moderator should ASK the original poster if they are okay first after a complaint is made if they are troubled by other people sharing their experiances in the same thread. If that is the case, then delete at will, but you did not. First you deleted hammercarp's post, which on the surface is relatively innocent, then you deleted the topic about bow fishing, without asking salmotrutta, or consulting with anyone. Showing a clear bias and abuse of your moderator powers.

We have a word for people who disapprove of valid legal methods of hunting, or gun ownership, its called a Fudd. Both hammercarp, Blair, and a few others plus your own actions moderating show that you are such. BUT, I tried to keep it civil until hammercarp's bigotry started to show, it became less of a Fudd who just doesn't want to agree, that would have been the case in the first thread, but when he wants to force de jure segregation which is what this poll was really started for a line was crossed.

While me and hammercarp do not agree with our opinions on carp being invasive or not, I have had no problem arguing it with him, arguing is okay, its how debates are done. If everyone agreed on everything there would be no reason to discuss anything.

However, when de jure segregation is being pushed, I'll become vocal about it, I have no I have no qualms about calling out bigoted segregation attempts when I see them. Both online or in person.

While you cannot see WHY this is unacceptable, and your support for hammercarp's view being completely one sided, clearly you should not be a moderator, either OFF has low standards when it comes to selecting unbiased moderators, or the fact the admin has not been on this site all that often recently is allowing you to run a muck.

Jim

[hammercarp]

Hey Jim CaNazi
I'll tel,you a little secret. I have put more fish and game on the table than you have or ever will. I don't care how many forums you say you have moderated on.
You have compared me to a white supremacist.
Well here's how I see yours and company's actions.
The original post by Yanni was a set up. It was classic trolling. Before the internet they used to call it baiting. In pre war Germany the Hilter youth used to practice it. It was called Jew baiting. When the jewish kid responded in kind the Hitler youth cried that they were attacked. Just like you cried.
Your story about the CO was nothing more than an attempt to legitimize illegitimate behavior. Does the phrase " I was just following orders " ring a bell? They heard that a lot at Nuremberg.
Your comrade NADO"s picture of the giant dumpster of dead fish. The Final Solution comes to mind with that one. I know that fish aren't people but the mind set is similar.
Your spreading of misinformation on the laws regarding recreational fishing. Goebbels would have been proud of you for that attempt.
The way you refer to the CAG , like it was some secret cabal trying to dominate fishing here in Ontario. Just like the Neo Nazis with their prattle about the World Zionist Conspiracy.
Your avatar even has a neat little Hitler stasche!

[JimCanuck]

I'll tel,you a little secret. I have put more fish and game on the table than you have or ever will.

Oh what happened to your holier then thou attitude about C&R?

I guess I was right, I did hit a nerve and had you in a corner when I compared you to a bigot using your own actions and words you have made public here as a comparison. You by invoking Godwin's law, clearly shows your credibly and reasoning is lacking in this discussion.

Jim

[hammercarp]

Oh what happened to your holier then thou attitude about C&R?

I guess I was right, I did hit a nerve and had you in a corner when I compared you to a bigot using your own actions and words you have made public here as a comparison. You by invoking Godwin's law, clearly shows your credibly and reasoning is lacking in this discussion.

Jim

It was only in your mind. Ask Yanni what my PM to him was. More self deception on your part. I hunt and fish and I don't need some keyboard warrior like you to act as my self appointed saviour.

Your are confusing my reaction to an insult that was a blatant personal attack with " having me in a corner" This confusion is no doubt the result of having an ego as big as a house. You were the one that went on about White Supremacists in the first place. Nazi's are definitely an example of that. Take that and put it where Godwin won;t see it.

[JimCanuck]

It was only in your mind.

Lets see ...

In light of todays growing C&R ethic does harvesting fish with a bow and arrow belong in a separate section where those that object to it can ignore it?

However with both spearing and bowfishing there is no option for C&R.

So your point of starting a argument about bow fishing having its own section, being based on C&R (your words NOT mine) has nothing to do with anything? Right.

Still, this is the problem, even when you have no useful option for C&R with bow fishing, doesn't mean there is no selective harvesting. If one is to Bow fish, kill two carp and take them home for dinner, or one goes fishing with a rod and reel and kills 2 carp for dinner and releases another 4 what is the difference? Because fact is there is no difference.

Instead of being able to respect other legal methods of fishing, and having a REASONABLE discussion of it, (such as the ability to promote selective harvesting even in a form of fishing that is not C&R friendly), you turn it into a bigoted attempt at de jure segregation by forcing bow fishing in its own section. There are many avenues of approaching a topic, however you took the wrong path, one which is not acceptable in any situation.

Jim

[troutddicted]

Hey Jim CaNazi
I'll tel,you a little secret. I have put more fish and game on the table than you have or ever will. I don't care how many forums you say you have moderated on.
You have compared me to a white supremacist.
Well here's how I see yours and company's actions.
The original post by Yanni was a set up. It was classic trolling. Before the internet they used to call it baiting. In pre war Germany the Hilter youth used to practice it. It was called Jew baiting. When the jewish kid responded in kind the Hitler youth cried that they were attacked. Just like you cried.
Your story about the CO was nothing more than an attempt to legitimize illegitimate behavior. Does the phrase " I was just following orders " ring a bell? They heard that a lot at Nuremberg.
Your comrade NADO"s picture of the giant dumpster of dead fish. The Final Solution comes to mind with that one. I know that fish aren't people but the mind set is similar.
Your spreading of misinformation on the laws regarding recreational fishing. Goebbels would have been proud of you for that attempt.
The way you refer to the CAG , like it was some secret cabal trying to dominate fishing here in Ontario. Just like the Neo Nazis with their prattle about the World Zionist Conspiracy.
Your avatar even has a neat little Hitler stasche!

Sorry, I dont have much to say about the topic itself, but this is THE post of 2012 hammer, you are the man.

[hammercarp]

Lets see ...





So your point of starting a argument about bow fishing having its own section, being based on C&R (your words NOT mine) has nothing to do with anything? Right.

Still, this is the problem, even when you have no useful option for C&R with bow fishing, doesn't mean there is no selective harvesting. If one is to Bow fish, kill two carp and take them home for dinner, or one goes fishing with a rod and reel and kills 2 carp for dinner and releases another 4 what is the difference? Because fact is there is no difference.

Instead of being able to respect other legal methods of fishing, and having a REASONABLE discussion of it, (such as the ability to promote selective harvesting even in a form of fishing that is not C&R friendly), you turn it into a bigoted attempt at de jure segregation by forcing bow fishing in its own section. There are many avenues of approaching a topic, however you took the wrong path, one which is not acceptable in any situation.

Jim

Wrong on your first point about the holier than thou attitude. And more personal attacks on your part. You can't have a REASONABLE discussion with someone who continually resorts to this.
I started a discussion with a poll not an argument.
I asked a question, not made a demand.
I have no power to force anything on anyone on this forum. That is nonsense.
You won't even agree to saying " you leave us alone we'll leave you alone" .

[JimCanuck]

You won't even agree to saying " you leave us alone we'll leave you alone" .

How can I when threads clearly marked as "bow fishing" have still enticed your group to post anti bow fishing comments? I believe I mentioned that in my first reply to this thread. Lets take a look back ....

On top of that, just about every bow fishing thread so far has always had "Bow fishing" in the title so, your complaining about what? The fact you and a small vocal group who cannot skip over the threads?

Postings clearly marked as "Bow Fishing" so that perhaps the anti-bow fishing posters would skip over them were not skipped over. Such as Yanni's thread after the moderation happened on salmotrutta's thread, that was taken over by anti-bow fishing posts.

See a problem here?

I have never went on a thread where you or someone else describes English style carp fishing and post something negative about it (actually I've seen quite a few videos of European carp fishing and I'm actually somewhat interested in it). But you and your group continue to attack a legal means of fishing even in clearly marked threads.

If you really wish to give a "olive branch" you'd rein in your little group and make it clear to them not to enter threads marked bow fishing just to start a fight. Because neither me or anyone else has entered your threads to troll them about your means of fishing.

Jim

[ChaseChrome]

From My Perspective

I do not consider bow hunting/fishing to be a worthy preoccupation, I don't care much for carp fishing, I ONLY catch + release, and yes, I am among those who you derisively sneer at for being anti-gun and anti-hunting--so I am"outing" myself as it were by way of illustrating how such a forum should function despite one's own predilections and preferences.

Sadly, the conclusion of this "debate" (that is, Jim and Hammer's juvenile sniping and toxic reparte) has neither been productive (by way of bringing greater clarity to the "issue" or understanding for the forum) nor generous in terms of acknowledging the consequences to the membership and the OFF forum. The latter I might add is one of the more inclusive, tolerant, and friendly fora to serve the Ontario fishing community (I have already directed you to my post titled "Thank You" and suspect you might do well to avail yourselves of it). Clearly Dimitrios you seem to feel some entitlement to appointing yourself as the moral authority here, the policing of what you take to be an affront to your own conception of justice, fairness, and truth or logoi. This is not idle speculation or misinterpretation, you clearly stipulated that you have "no qualm calling people out" which implies your assessment or interpretation of the truth, offence, or the law is de facto unequivocal and requires unquestioning adherence...seems very much like the utterances of Rex. I suspect, if you are of Greek extraction (and I welcome any corrective regarding my assumption) your are not unsympathetic to its Fascist inclinations--I don't get the sense you are a staunch admirer of Pasok...

My first language is also not English and rarely wield it as a weapon--though I would appreciate more profound erudition at times I know too that vernacular has its place and expedience. Like you I also appreciate precision in language and the crafted word but can only divine from your combativeness that you feel somehow threatened or inadequate (that you aren't really convinced of your "mastery" at all--that it is mere slight-of-hand); the question as to why may be better answered by some good therapy.

I don’t know either of you, though I am sure you both have redeeming qualities and personae (share them with others please...)--my response here has merely to do with the tenor of your discussion. Efka (whom I also don’t know) has quite reasonably observed that your posts have been beligerent and have failed to share anything with the forum--a fair assessment as far as I can tell. As far as I’m concerned (particularly after this debacle) I would rather bow hunting/fishing find its own arena or carp fising for that matter (there are likely countless such fora to infect--of course you are also "free" to start your own forum with your own dictates).

I have remarked many times now that the anglers here are for the most part generous, knowledgeable and a good bunch of guys. We try as best we can to spin tales and provide reports to feed our dreams and help nurture the art of angling.

As I have so often done in the past with my reports I will leave you too with the spectre of things to come, things that may help your dreams take flight—in fact—angry flight from the tailout of a pristine run on a fabled river...

Chill CC



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[JimCanuck]

you clearly stipulated that you have "no qualm calling people out" which implies your assessment or interpretation of the truth, offence, or the law is de facto[/font] unequivocal and requires unquestioning adherence

Not really no, your confusing 2 different issues, I really at the end do not care what hammercarp believes, or doesn't believe, what I have a issue with is his methods of getting it, moderation to suit his purposes with his buddy efka, and trying to build up a case for segregation of others he does not agree with rather then talking about the real issues.

There are many BETTER alternatives to what hammercarp has attempted to do.

Sure everyone believes we must preserve our natural resources, and regardless if one is angling, or bow fishing, there is still a layer of selective harvesting that happens with both, while a angler is basically playing the lottery with every cast, a bow fisherman knows exactly what they are going to pull out of the water. There are valid ways to discuss how to best apply selective harvesting to bow fishing just as we do to angling to better our natural resources.

Instead of trying to force segregate the forums, agreeing that bow fishing topics that are clearly labelled as such in the title are to be left alone, and non-bow fishing topics are not to have bow fishing included, would have been a much easier and much more diplomatic method of getting a separation of topics to suit everyone's needs.

However other then a SINGLE case of "cross pollination" done by Yanni in Salmotrutta's thread of which Salmotrutta was okay with (so therefore should really be a non-issue), to date, people such as tangledline, Blair and mikeh are the only ones entering threads they KNOW they do not agree with to cause arguments as the threads were clearly labelled with "Bow fishing" in the titles.

I don't get the sense you are a staunch admirer of Pasok...

The foundations of PASOK started with Andreas' father, who in 1922 supported and helped organize a coup of 1922 to get his way. Military take overs of the Greek government happen from both sides of the political spectrum, no one really dominates that monopoly.

Interestingly enough since you mention them, PASOK since its founding has done a lot to tear down the walls of segregations by being vocal about not only what was going on in Greece for centuries (racial, and political segregation), but also by being vocal about it to groups who wished to continue segregation policies and force people comply with their segregation.

Jim

[Dugger]

... I think when I see a fellow angler branding a fine fisherman a "bigot" in the forum.... well it's actually sad and totally uncalled for. When the heck did we jump the shark? This has been heavier reading than Dante or Rybakov for pete's sake. I smell a sweaty group hug soon. How aboot a thread on legalizing snagging?

[ChaseChrome]

... I think when I see a fellow angler branding a fine fisherman a "bigot" in the forum.... well it's actually sad and totally uncalled for. When the heck did we jump the shark? This has been heavier reading than Dante or Rybakov for pete's sake. I smell a sweaty group hug soon. How aboot a thread on legalizing snagging?

Such terminology is in absolute contravention of the rules here (and should be anywhere for that matter) and should have been better managed. As far a a group hug...sheesh, reading too much "Iron John" Dug my man

But hey, yeah--a thread on FLOSSING as I'm tying up some fine 12' leaders for the DOZER

[salmotrutta]

Another couple of pages and we're going to have a new Ayn Rand novel here, look out Atlas Shrugged!

Who is John from CRAA?