19 replies to this topic

[fishing89]

I have noticed that trout, go as far north as possible, I can find them at the beginnings of some creeks and rivers way north of the mouth.

 

However, hitting a local spot where trout would be teeming...had ZERO activity, even though the same body of water 10km downstream was rammed with fish. I checked the same spot last year...and the same thing, no salmon, or fish. Its very strange...do the salmon just not care to find cleaner, more undisturbed water?

 

 

[buck]

I have noticed that trout, go as far north as possible, I can find them at the beginnings of some creeks and rivers way north of the mouth.

 

However, hitting a local spot where trout would be teeming...had ZERO activity, even though the same body of water 10km downstream was rammed with fish. I checked the same spot last year...and the same thing, no salmon, or fish. Its very strange...do the salmon just not care to find cleaner, more undisturbed water?

 

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[fishing89]

yes, trout also go back to the same spot they hatched. But im wondering why the salmon wouldn't lay eggs in the more cleaner, north waters. I mean..its like an extra 10km. very weird. Not to mention steelies and browns are with the chinooks, those guys dont go north either, yet they do in the spring?

 

maybe at this time of the year they dont?

[openfire]

A couple of possible reasons, and this is just speculation on my part with no scientific data to cite that I'm aware of...

Salmon are one time spawners, as such aren't feeding and therefore lack the endurance to make it that far up? Also salmon are larger and would have a more difficult time getting further upstream than their smaller salmonid cousins. Another possible reason being climate... A fall spawn vs spring spawn would have a definite impact on both conditions for the spawning fish themselves and their spawn (eggs/fry) in terms of ideal temps and water conditions.

As for steelies being in with the chinooks, conventional wisdom is that steelhad are feeding on the chinny eggs... no need for them to go any further than where the chinnies are, besides, they have no reason to go as far up (to their preferred spawning grounds) now, when they don't spawn until spring.

[fishing89]

all what I was thinking openfire. I think that answered my question and confirmed my beliefs, thanks!

[Slickrick]

one article I had read recently online complained about the fact that the salmon are imprinted improperly, arguing they should be planted far upstream rather than dumped in rivermouths and harbours.  this was directed mostly @ MNR methods.  i don't know about this day and age, i am pretty sure back 20 plus years ago, the reproduction rates were zero.

 

maybe because trout don't always die after spawning and may reside in a river all winter, they go as far as possible.

[openfire]

Very interesting slickrick, do you have a link?

[Slickrick]

a little dated, but heres one article by choronzey

http://www.goingfish...r.view.asp?id=2

[w_ boughner]

Salmon are clod water fish that come in to a warm river to spawn which the warm will raise there metabolism .. As salmon eggs enlarge in preparation to spawn they compress the stomach to the point of they do feel hungry and not feed!! With the heightened metabolism and lack of nourishment they don't have the energy to go more than 15-20k... When steal head enter the river they still have small skeins and develop at they move up the river to be ready for the spring spawn

[openfire]

a little dated, but heres one article by choronzey
http://www.goingfish...r.view.asp?id=2

Thanks for the link.

Sidenote: I've seen Chronzy rant about this in the past. He made a good point about the clipped fins. I remember catching salmon back in the day at P.C. that had a yellow dot on the stomache. It was said that the yellow dot marked fish were stray NY hatchery stocked fish. This made more sense to me than physically damaging fish by clipping their fins... Fish have those fins for a reason!
As far as his argument about stocking fish upstream so that they can imprint, as opposed to simply dumping the fingerlings off of piers and breakwalls at river mouths, I guess that makes sense. I wonder what the ministry's reason was for that practice at the time?

[NiagaraSteel]

Some great info here

[Rainbow]

I have noticed that trout, go as far north as possible, I can find them at the beginnings of some creeks and rivers way north of the mouth.
 
However, hitting a local spot where trout would be teeming...had ZERO activity, even though the same body of water 10km downstream was rammed with fish. I checked the same spot last year...and the same thing, no salmon, or fish. Its very strange...do the salmon just not care to find cleaner, more undisturbed water?

Was this out west? On one tributary they are stopped at the first dam to prevent them from going upstream. Same dam is open in the spring for trout migration.

[Bug_Slinger]

what I find interesting is the salmon run on the yukon river... they can travel more than 3500 km on their way past whitehorse.

 

[RiverRuns]

what I find interesting is the salmon run on the yukon river... they can travel more than 3500 km on their way past whitehorse.
 
http://www.bing.com/...selectedIndex=1

just speculation, but the Yukon river ( as well as air temp) must be colder year-round than the rivers in southern Ontario. Salmon running in early September are coming from relatively cold lake water into the much warmer rivers. Add to this some super-warm September days and a gauntlet of anglers, and the salmon must be more physically stressed. What others are saying about stocking location/imprinting also holds true IMO.
Just curious, what is the water like between the downstream areas and the "preferable" upstream locations? Is it easily navigable, even in low water conditions? I know salmonids can travel long distances in tough conditions to spawn, but sometimes I think they may just take the path of least resistance.

[Giuga10]

On a side note, people mentioned that Salmons stomach compresses, that's false. When Salmon begin prepping for spawn (changing colors ect..) their stomachs actually begin to decompose and by the time they hit the rivers they actually do not have a stomach and they rely on consuming their body fat and muscle for energy. They do this to make more room for eggs. This is why Salmon rarely feed in the rivers. And also most likely why they don't travel so far upstream.

 

Source: I cant remember the link but it was a website dedicated to the life cycle of the chinook salmon.

[Giuga10]

I think it's because they are practically half dead when entering the rivers so they do not have the energy to travel so far up north, but I also believe that if Salmon were stocked farther up north they would push themselves to go that far.

[Knuguy]

!! With the heightened metabolism and lack of nourishment they don't have the energy to go more than 15-20k... 

 

 

I guess there are always exceptions, but salmon make it past Angus, which is 45-50 km from the mouth of the Notty. 

[fishing89]

awesome info here. thanks guys

 

probably due to lack of energy and imprint. Never knew salmon dont feed in the rivers once they enter...thats crazy !

[Bug_Slinger]

got to induce those reaction strikes and piss them right the hell off

[beef]

It's not always north they r traveling its up current they go and they usually go back to the same area they were born within reason