27 replies to this topic

[MichaelAngelo]

Hey guys, in light of the interesting thread about this I thought we could play a bit of a game.  Let's post up some pictures of fish we've measured/weighed and get some guesses going before revealing the actual measurements.  

 

 

I'll start it off with some pictures from this weekend, can I get some estimates?  I have pictures of these fish on a ruler as well as weights (you'll have to trust me on the weights though).  

 

Fish #1 Largemouth:

 

 

Fish #2 Smallmouth:

 

 

 

 

I'd like others to join in too!  Hopefully together we can get more familiar with our favorite finned friends.  

[MuskieBait]

I can't play since I already know the length and weight of those fish.

 

Let's see what people figures...

[usernamehere]

27.66lb and 35.09lb

I know i win. Whats the prize?

[alwayscatching]

Anywhere from 19-22 inches for both fish, the largie looks fat but I would say around 3.2 and the smallie around 2.5. PM me with the actuals I would love to see how close or far off I was.

[Shawarma]

Guessing games are fun. I'll play!

First : 3.6lbs.. 18"
Second: 2.9lbs.. 16"

[Brian]

My guess is pretty close to Shawarma's

Largie: 3.5 lbs and 18"

Smallie: 3.0 lbs and 17"

[Christopher K]

LM: 3.75lbs, 19"

 

SM: 2.75lbs, 17.5"

[getin]

LM: 4.2  lb

SM: 3.5 lb

[creek chub in your pocket]

LM - 3p 11oz
SM - 3p 5oz

[Bow Man]

LM 4 pound  16"

 

SM 3-3.5 pound 14"

[Shawarma]

Bucket mouths always seems alot heavier than they really are.

C'mon MB.. Post the numbers!

[MuskieBait]

I don't have the pictures...Michael has them (they are his fish). I hope he'll post them after work.

 

A picture speaks a 1000 words.

[creek chub in your pocket]

Bucket mouths always seems alot heavier than they really are.

C'mon MB.. Post the numbers!

couldnt have said it better about the largies! i got one that i swear was 8 pounds, it was 6.5...my biggest ever.

 

it was just sooo soooo much bigger than the 6lb smally i got i figured it had to be 8.

 

so yeah, i hear ya!

[rybak]

LM  - 14.5"

SM - 14"

 

Each 3 - 3.5 lbs

[MuskieBait]

I'll offer some tips for estimating fish without a tape when you are out on the water. This is how I often estimate within 1" of an actual tape measure. This only works if you are not a growing child or adolescent.

 

You'll need a measuring tape. Do this once, remember it, and then you'll be good for life (until you're old and get osteoporosis...at which point your bones shrink and your stature decreases).

 

As convention, I always measure from my middle finger, and I use my right arm as reference. Not that one arm is significantly longer than the other...but for sake of "accuracy" and "precision", I always use my right arm.

 

1) Measure from the tip of your middle finger to the base of your palm. This usually give you a good reference for smaller palm size fish, such as panfish.

 

2) Measure from the tip of your middle finger to the inside of your elbow. This usually give you a good reference for smaller size bass, average eater walleye or a BIG crappie. If you take this measure with your arm bent, as opposed to your arm full extended out, the discrepency is about 1". But that's a pretty good guesstimate +/- 1".

 

3) Fully extend your arm, and measure from the tip of your middle finger to your armpit. This usually give you a good reference of small pike and muskie, nice model walleye, some wall hanging bass, and the average migratory trout. Again, whether you measure this with your arm extended in front of you, or your arm extended down beside you, the discrepency is only about 1".

 

4) Stretch out your arm beside you, and measure from the tip of the middle finger to your left armpit with the tape across your chest just under the collar bone (so chest size isn't affected here). This usually give you a good reference for the typical salmon, bigger pike and muskies and big catfish.

 

For even bigger fish, then you just use multiples of your palm, or forearm or whatever to estimate.

 

Why go through all this, instead of saying "My palm from middle finger to the base is 7" long...and the fish is about 3 palms long"?

 

Because if you are right handed, and you hold a fish with right hand (lip, belly...whatever), you have a quick visual reference as to how long the fish is compared to the hand you are actually holding the fish. If you take a picture and have the fish next to your forearm, you can then go and estimate the size of your fish later. More often than not, I just hold the fish next to my arm and immediately have a good estimate of fish length. I can care less about girth unless the fish is especially skinny or fat...but a fairly accurate length will tell me approximate weight of the fish.

 

Not that I really do care about the exact weight of any fish I caught. The Flathead Catfish I recently caught from Pennsylvania was weighted at an exact 17.2lb...but I will only call it as 17lbs. I can care less about the 0.2lbs. If the fish burp, it'll lose that 0.2lb. If the fish poop while it is scared to death by these photographing alien creatures from the world above, it'll lose that 0.2lbs. If some more water shed off the fish, it'll lose that 0.2lbs. See my point?

[creek chub in your pocket]

I'll offer some tips for estimating fish without a tape when you are out on the water. This is how I often estimate within 1" of an actual tape measure. This only works if you are not a growing child or adolescent.

 

You'll need a measuring tape. Do this once, remember it, and then you'll be good for life (until you're old and get osteoporosis...at which point your bones shrink and your stature decreases).

 

As convention, I always measure from my middle finger, and I use my right arm as reference. Not that one arm is significantly longer than the other...but for sake of "accuracy" and "precision", I always use my right arm.

 

1) Measure from the tip of your middle finger to the base of your palm. This usually give you a good reference for smaller palm size fish, such as panfish.

 

2) Measure from the tip of your middle finger to the inside of your elbow. This usually give you a good reference for smaller size bass, average eater walleye or a BIG crappie. If you take this measure with your arm bent, as opposed to your arm full extended out, the discrepency is about 1". But that's a pretty good guesstimate +/- 1".

 

3) Fully extend your arm, and measure from the tip of your middle finger to your armpit. This usually give you a good reference of small pike and muskie, nice model walleye, some wall hanging bass, and the average migratory trout. Again, whether you measure this with your arm extended in front of you, or your arm extended down beside you, the discrepency is only about 1".

 

4) Stretch out your arm beside you, and measure from the tip of the middle finger to your left armpit with the tape across your chest just under the collar bone (so chest size isn't affected here). This usually give you a good reference for the typical salmon, bigger pike and muskies and big catfish.

 

For even bigger fish, then you just use multiples of your palm, or forearm or whatever to estimate.

 

Why go through all this, instead of saying "My palm from middle finger to the base is 7" long...and the fish is about 3 palms long"?

 

Because if you are right handed, and you hold a fish with right hand (lip, belly...whatever), you have a quick visual reference as to how long the fish is compared to the hand you are actually holding the fish. If you take a picture and have the fish next to your forearm, you can then go and estimate the size of your fish later. More often than not, I just hold the fish next to my arm and immediately have a good estimate of fish length. I can care less about girth unless the fish is especially skinny or fat...but a fairly accurate length will tell me approximate weight of the fish.

 

Not that I really do care about the exact weight of any fish I caught. The Flathead Catfish I recently caught from Pennsylvania was weighted at an exact 17.2lb...but I will only call it as 17lbs. I can care less about the 0.2lbs. If the fish burp, it'll lose that 0.2lb. If the fish poop while it is scared to death by these photographing alien creatures from the world above, it'll lose that 0.2lbs. If some more water shed off the fish, it'll lose that 0.2lbs. See my point?

hey just a bit off topic here but i noticed the little note under your comment about the species you catch and life list, etc..

 

im sure you have got one, but catch many log perch?>

 

i've got a few in my day, and id imagine with 393 species caught you have got one.

 

just curious, thats all, good day sir.

[MuskieBait]

hey just a bit off topic here but i noticed the little note under your comment about the species you catch and life list, etc..

 

im sure you have got one, but catch many log perch?>

 

i've got a few in my day, and id imagine with 393 species caught you have got one.

 

just curious, thats all, good day sir.

 

Yep, caught two species - Logperch (Percina caprodes) and Ozark Logperch (Percina fulvitaenia). Most of the logperch diversity is in the US. As far are I know, we only have Percina caprodes in Canada...but I could be wrong. The Ozark Logperch was caugth in Illinois.

 

Logperch are smaller fish...so unless you target them with smaller hooks...you generally don't catch them. I've found the in calmer shallows of bigger rivers, and have caught maybe half a dozen so far in Ontario.

 

If you are really that interested, check this out. Not a self promotion...but people love to see fish pics, right?

 

http://muskiebaitadv...ecies-list.html

[Bow Man]

Yep, caught two species - Logperch (Percina caprodes) and Ozark Logperch (Percina fulvitaenia). Most of the logperch diversity is in the US. As far are I know, we only have Percina caprodes in Canada...but I could be wrong. The Ozark Logperch was caugth in Illinois.

 

Logperch are smaller fish...so unless you target them with smaller hooks...you generally don't catch them. I've found the in calmer shallows of bigger rivers, and have caught maybe half a dozen so far in Ontario.

 

If you are really that interested, check this out. Not a self promotion...but people love to see fish pics, right?

 

http://muskiebaitadv...ecies-list.html

Very interesting Muskie, thanks for sharing. If you dont mind me asking what do you do for a living? Serious question, not trying to be a a_s or anything just wondering. I know you mentioned something in the sciences.

 

cheers

[MuskieBait]

Very interesting Muskie, thanks for sharing. If you dont mind me asking what do you do for a living? Serious question, not trying to be a a_s or anything just wondering. I know you mentioned something in the sciences.

 

cheers

 

Currently trying to write my thesis (which is why I'm procrastinating and posting on forums LOL). My lab studies genetic instability in prostate cancer (or cancer in general)...whether the instability is generated from microenvironmental factors such as tumour hypoxia, or from treatment such as radiation or chemotherapy. We study how cells develop DNA damage and mutations and how cells recover from such damage. All of this has implication on prognosis and outcome clinically. My particular project focuses on a particular type of cells from a patient with a particular mutation in a DNA repair response protein. It's a ubiquitin E3 ligase that is important for propagating the DNA damage response, and more current evidence suggests (although yet to be completely proven) that this protein acts as a switch in the cell to determine which DNA repair pathway the cell will choose, depending on which phase of the cell cycle, as well as compensating factors when other factors within the repair pathway is defective. Deficiency in this protein lead to a delayed repair and lower repair efficiency in the cell, leading to genetic instability such as deletions or translocation or loss of chromosome fragments (ie, mutations) which is an important step toward developing an unstable phenotype. Accumulation of genetic instability is a hallmark of cancer, so unrepaired DNA damage is a path toward tumour development (tumourigenesis).

 

But DNA damage, especially DNA double strand break, is also the mechanism used to kill cancer cells. Radiation creates DNA damage in cells severe enough that a 2Gy does can kill 50% of the cells. Right now some radiation treatment regime used fractions of 2Gy for 30+ fractions to treat prostate cancer. A straight 60Gy will kill cells beyond repair, but to use such dose will also damage important organs, such as the large intestine (affect bowel movement), bladder (affect urination control), and the unaffected prostate areas (affecting sexual function or general hormonal issues). A fractionated dose allow cells to recover in between treatment (since 50% of the cells can recover and replenish the tissue)...thus reducing the side effects.

 

If we can screen patients with this mutation in my protein of interest, than we can inform the patient whether they are prone to developing cancer...and perhaps developing treatments to mitigate the issue. If we know a patient has such mutation and is entering cancer treatment, then we may be able to make decision on whether it is suitable for such patient to receive treatments that causes DNA damage. If only the tumour has the mutation, then a DNA damaging agent will only severely affect the tumour, which is actually a good thing and what we desire. The normal cells would repair the damage faster (protein function proficient...or DNA repair efficient) and be less affected compared to the tumour (protein defective...repair deficient). We can reduce the dose of drug use and still get the same cell killing effect in the tumour cells. Perhaps, using the defective protein as our study model, we can create drugs that block the function of the protein, such that we can make the tumour much more sensitive to the radiation and DNA damage. Again, this allows us to reduce the dose to reduce normal tissue side effects, yet still maintains a therapeutic efficacay in treating the more susceptable tumour (after we applied the drug against the DNA repair mechanism).

 

That's what I currently do in a nutshell. Which is why numbers and figures and facts are so important in my mind...because we can't just make up a figure and say "The patient have 50% chance of survival from this cancer treatment." or "The patient prognosis is poor because the tumour is very hypoxic."...if we can't back it up with actual studies with verified data (numbers). At the end, it really is life or death...I'm not exaggerating. I can't be a researcher doing experiments and reporting data knowing full well that if my data is even remotely debatable or uncertain, it can lead to other research results that is incorrect...which may ultimately affect patients in the clinic. There is no "I think it is 31 inches" in my field. It's either "It measured 31 inches, see figure 1." or "We cannot be certain at this time it measured at 31 inches, as such, the data was not reported. Further study is required."

 

But I'm entering Teacher's College in less than a month so I can be a highschool science teacher in the future. Academic research is too stressful nowaday with funding being cut back all the time and faculty positions being ever more competitive. Industry option is something I've considered but I don't particularly enjoy the stress and restrictions working under such settings (ie, if I find an interesting result, if it is not within scope of the project, I can't put resources to investigate that "question"). I love working with young people...am told I'm very patient...and hell, I can have Christmas, March Break and summers off...with a great pension...why not!

 

Blah...I just wrote another 1000 word essay...it's easy for me to get carried away...back to serious thesis writing for me...and fish size guessing for the rest of you.

[Bow Man]

Currently trying to write my thesis (which is why I'm procrastinating and posting on forums LOL). My lab studies genetic instability in prostate cancer (or cancer in general)...whether the instability is generated from microenvironmental factors such as tumour hypoxia, or from treatment such as radiation or chemotherapy. We study how cells develop DNA damage and mutations and how cells recover from such damage. All of this has implication on prognosis and outcome clinically. My particular project focuses on a particular type of cells from a patient with a particular mutation in a DNA repair response protein. It's a ubiquitin E3 ligase that is important for propagating the DNA damage response, and more current evidence suggests (although yet to be completely proven) that this protein acts as a switch in the cell to determine which DNA repair pathway the cell will choose, depending on which phase of the cell cycle, as well as compensating factors when other factors within the repair pathway is defective.

 

That's what I current do in a nutshell. But I'm entering Teacher's College in less than a month so I can be a highschool science teacher in the future. Academic research is too stressful nowaday with funding being cut back all the time and faculty positions being ever more competitive. Industry option is something I've considered but I don't particularly enjoy the stress and restrictions working under such settings (ie, if I find an interesting result, if it is not within scope of the project, I can't put resources to investigate that "question"). I love working with young people...am told I've very patient...and hell, I can have Christmas, March Break and summers off...with a great pension...why not!

Very cool and very interesting, also bravo to you for wanting to work with young people, being a father of 3 very young sons i am glad to know people with your ability will one day help and stimulate there young minds.

 

cheers