43 replies to this topic

[rick james]

Hey guys,

 

Hope you're all having fun.

 

I've managed to get out a few times so far and fortunately I chanced upon some fresh runs.

 

Fishing along with me were anglers of all stripes, from rookies to veterans.  I met a few class acts, much better anglers than me, and I learned a whole lot and I managed to catch a few fish but man….what a GONG SHOW!

 

I think I'm coming to terms with the 'looganity' of it all but for what it's worth I decided to share some of my experiences from one day, I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.

 

I get to one of my favourite pools at twilight, 6 other guys already there, I had been there the previous week and hooked into a few fish drifting down into the pool from the top end. One older guy with a spinning outfit, treble hook and 50 lb braid and all, is standing 3 feet deep at the top end right in the middle of the drift, fish are whizzing by him left right and centre. An argument ensues with another angler in some slavic language, but he stubbornly refuses to move, I left to go to another river.

 

At that other river on the same day, walking downstream fish are shooting up from pool to pool in no more than 12 inches of water. Guys line the banks with treble hooks, many of their unfortunate victims by their side. I advise one gentleman what he is doing is illegal, that fish won't bite when they're swimming for their lives in 12 inches of water, he says 'why not'. I shake my head and walk downriver to the next pool, hook 2 fish.  He then comes to fish right next to me with his egg sinker and treble hook. Fish spook, I move downriver and place a call to the MNR (don't know if they showed up).

 

Downriver, a guy with 5 foot Mickey Mouse rod had picked up a rock from the shore and tied it about 1 inch from his bare long shank hook. He then walked in the middle of the river just upstream of the pool and casted into it only to get snagged on bottom. A tangle ensues with one of the other anglers and when it's released he walks across the river to fish next to me.  I educate him not to stand in the middle of the river and some of the tactics he might try to legitimately catch a fish. Five minutes later he moves upstream to a group of about 10 fish that had just left the pool and were sitting in 10 inches of water, casts into them with his bare hook and spooks them downstream.

 

Further downstream a huge run of fish had come in, I mean you literally could not see bottom in this particular pool, any cast into that pool would've resulted in a foul hook. Nonetheless, there's about 7 guys casting into it and snagging the absolute 'bejesus' out of these fish.  It starts raining and the crowds thin out, but someone with his smart phone decides to walk into the middle of that pool to get a close up on the fish and he tries to grab one with his bare hand, the fish spook downstream overcrowding the pool I'm fishing in.

 

Although it seems hopeless at times and I question whether I should even bother with salmon season, I try to be as patient as I can and educate new anglers because at the end of the day I still love the fish and I'd hate to give up on the fishery.  

 

What do you think?

[RiverRuns]

You can't believe it until you see it...then you shake your head and never come back.

[MuskieBait]

GONG show is right!

I was on the flip side of it.

Two buddies and I were fishing a pool filled with all sorts...from flossers to blatant snaggers. I wanted to get away from the mess and fished the bottom end of the pool where males (and surprisingly females) were fighting. Epic salmon battle chasing each other. This is prime for swinging lures to get an aggressive hit.

I grabbed my spoon (with a single siwash hook) and started swinging it or holding it in front of the aggressive fish. Then three holier-than-thou centerpinners started making comments.

"That spoon is too big."

"Way to snag them with the treble hook."

"They don't hit in rivers. It only works at the mouth."

Basically, they are accusing me of snagging.

I offered to show them some pictures of fish I caught earlier this week on spoons. They said "No, I don't need to see your pictures." I got into a bit of an argument with them for saying poop they know nothing about. And here they were trying to floss salmon and accusing me of wrong doing.

After they left, I connected with two fish. Strangely, both females as the males were too busy fighting each other. You can tell me from the picture below if I was intending to snag them.

If you three poop heads are on this forum and reading this, go eat some crow and have some humble pie for dessert. Don't assume that someone fishing with a big spoon and twitching it implies snagging. Flossing is basically skilled snagging.



More fish from Wednesday. Oh no! That lure has a treble hook. Must be snagging!

 

They don't hit spoons in rivers, right?

But hey, stripping a bugger or a rabbit leech works because they strike out of aggression...but spoon...no, spoons don't work. WTF?

 

The GONG SHOW is everyone out there...even if you are dress like a million bucks and look elite.

[fishfreek]

Fun and games.....

[PUMP KNOWS]

My first time going to PH last saturday and I don't ever want to fish those steps ever again.

[balt0]

My first time going to PH last saturday and I don't ever want to fish those steps ever again.

X2

[rick james]

Muskiebait,

Nice pics and nice to learn from your post. I can certainly understand your frustration when it comes to other anglers assuming you're snagging because you're using a lure; no doubt salmon will strike lures in the river. However, to assume float fishermen are all intentionally flossing is equally unfair.  I agree we should all share the river and give each other space and respect, no matter which technique we decide to use, as long as we all intend to legitimately catch the fish. Having said that, I think at times common sense should prevail. If there are a number of float or fly-fisherman working a pool and someone comes in with a lure casting into the same location that can be selfish.  Like you did, working the tail-out, or another part of the river makes sense and shows you respect the space of your fellow angler.

[MuskieBait]

Muskiebait,

Nice pics and nice to learn from your post. I can certainly understand your frustration when it comes to other anglers assuming you're snagging because you're using a lure; no doubt salmon will strike lures in the river. However, to assume float fishermen are all intentionally flossing is equally unfair.  I agree we should all share the river and give each other space and respect, no matter which technique we decide to use, as long as we all intend to legitimately catch the fish. Having said that, I think at times common sense should prevail. If there are a number of float or fly-fisherman working a pool and someone comes in with a lure casting into the same location that can be selfish.  Like you did, working the tail-out, or another part of the river makes sense and shows you respect the space of your fellow angler.

 

 

I made no such assumption. I merely stated the three who accused me of snagging were flossing. They were using a lead that was much too long for the water depth and holding the drift back and slowed it down so much that they were just waiting for the roe bag to wash into the mouth, or hoping a salmon would run into the line and floss itself.

I float fish as well and I was float fishing when I can find an open pool for a drift. I well know that not all float anglers use the technique to floss.

Here's one I hooked yesterday while float fishing that I let my friend Stefano landed. He's new to salmon fishing and he's been losing fish left, right and center so I let him play some of my fish to get some coaching and practice.

And you can tell me if this salmon wanted a bead or not. We also got a few on fresh roe. As a bonus, we caught a couple of small Steelhead with the roe as well.

If you look carefully, you can just barely see the bead poking out at the corner of the mouth.

 

But a look down the hatch and the bead is swallowed right down. The fish had it so far down it was actually hooked by the last gill arch. The other yarn fly that was there wasn't mine. You can tell the yarn fly flossed the fish as the hook angle came from the outside.

[bigugly]

No need to prove anything to anybody. If you are fishing legally and to your ethics it's all good. Heck last time I went out I looked like a bait shop. Centrepin setup, fly setup and spinning setup.

[DILLIGAF?!]

Whenever I fish a crowd.i usually join in if if I know them well. And even then I give distance. It's all about ethical fishing. You can have all the right setup. Waders centerpin etc. If you fish 3 ft from the next guy on a pool where there's only 2 of you is still annoying and creepy. Trust me that happened.

[Paul1913]

No need to prove anything to anybody. If you are fishing legally and to your ethics it's all good. Heck last time I went out I looked like a bait shop. Centrepin setup, fly setup and spinning setup.

That's me usually. I bring my centre pin and fly to the water and spinning gear stays in car if I need it.

[SlappadaBass]

I just tried fishing salmon this year at the mouth using glow spoons. Didn't get any, but I have gone to a couple of rivers in and around Toronto trying to learn how it's done. So far I've just gotten more confused. Some people told me lures and treble hooks = illegal and snagging. Others have said the opposite. Some say flossing is legit, others say it isn't. I get that the fish aren't feeding, and that strikes are reactionary, but I've yet to see them strike a roe bag. I'd like to know, once and for all, what is the legal AND ethical way to catch these fish?

 

edit: I saw a video of guys in a Colorado river using large flies on weighted hooks to catch them, so I showed up at my local river with one of these. Instantly some dude comes up to me saying that the MNR would book me for snagging the fish if they saw me with the lure. So I just cut it and went home. 

[salmotrutta]

Snagging is illegal in Ontario (hooked anywhere other than the mouth).

 

That's the most important thing to know. 

 

You should also make sure you're fishing an area that's open, and not keeping more than your allotted limit of fish.

 

If you bring a lure to fish with, and some jackass tells you that the MNR wouldn't allow it, he's just that, a jackass. Unfortunately there are many jackasses.

 

Aggressive strike vs feeding vs flossing is a long-winded topic. It's nearly impossible to floss a fish with a lure and standard retrieval, whether it be in a tributary or at the mouth of the river. Spinners, spoons, crankbaits, etc.

 

Flies, beads and roe bags can lead to flossing.

 

Do your best to avoid flossing, and if you accidentally snag a fish, break it free as soon as you can. 

 

[DILLIGAF?!]

I just tried fishing salmon this year at the mouth using glow spoons. Didn't get any, but I have gone to a couple of rivers in and around Toronto trying to learn how it's done. So far I've just gotten more confused. Some people told me lures and treble hooks = illegal and snagging. Others have said the opposite. Some say flossing is legit, others say it isn't. I get that the fish aren't feeding, and that strikes are reactionary, but I've yet to see them strike a roe bag. I'd like to know, once and for all, what is the legal AND ethical way to catch these fish?

 

edit: I saw a video of guys in a Colorado river using large flies on weighted hooks to catch them, so I showed up at my local river with one of these. Instantly some dude comes up to me saying that the MNR would book me for snagging the fish if they saw me with the lure. So I just cut it and went home. 

Unless it's the MNR themselves, don't really give a hoot whatever some stranger tells me. Arm yourself with all the information and be confident that what you are doing is not illegal. That is the only way. I don't need people to ruin my very limited fishing trips..

Here's a video of a guy fishing with streamer flies....lots of aggressive strikes. only spinners spoons & flies can trigger strikes like this.

[FrequentFlyer]

bottom line, snags will happen, especially when big fish are involved stacked up in pockets. accidental flossing will eventually happen, you fish long enough, you'll one that swims through your line. you'll mishook fish, especially on a quick aggressive strike, you'll sometimes get them on the underside of their jaw as they slash at your bait. ignore people if they start talking crap, and just out fish them.

[Fisherman Dave]

@Slappadabass

 

Gotta love the know-it-alls (not on this forum I mean, or at least not in this thread, talking the ones you meet on the bank). Salmon WILL bite in the river. The longer they are in the river and the more zombie they get, the chances REDUCE, but do not disappear. Usually something that pisses them off is your best bet, however some are still not willing to accept they are going to die quite yet so they absolutely 100% will hit worms, roe bags, minnows, beads, anything food related. As stated here already, you will foul one from time to time, however if you have any sensitivity to fishing you should know pretty quickly. Mine this weekend (medium dark, several km from lake) fought normal for 2 minutes, then started fighting weird, then we saw it surfaced and it was tail wrapped, minute later it freed the line from its tail and fought normal again, spinner WITH A TREBBLE HOOK still nicely hooked on 2/3 prongs halfway down it's mouth. If I weren't afraid the old lady would kill me in spending all our savings on single hooks to replace trebles I would do it only for the fact that I believe it has better hookset power (power transferring through one single point vs spread over 3), not because I am worried some yahoo will report me to MNR. I am confident in the regs, I have nothing to worry about because I do not do anything illegal, and if I happen to foul a fish in front of the MNR they will see that I will do all I can to make it right.

 

So to recap:

Treble hook is legit (obviously depending on the regs, barbs may be clipped, certain sizes, etc.)

Lures are legit

Flies are legit

Bait is legit

Huge lures like J13 are legit

Accidents can be legit accidents, either cut your line or release the accidentally hooked fish depending

You should know when you fouled a fish, but if you don't not the biggest deal in the world because we are not perfect

 

Dragging a big hook along the bottom where you know there are fish to hook it in the side of the body is not legit

Using copious amounts of line in hopes it will run across the open mouth of a salmon is not legit

Using a net is not legit

Dynamite, not legit

 

In sum: not what you use (mostly) but how you use it. Learn to read the water and switch your offerings just like every other fish, and sometimes no matter what they just won't bite.

 

Lastly: Fisherman are notorious overthinkers. PH a couple of weekends ago my buddy was the only one to pull one out for hours once sun came up, 10lb main line, no leader, couple split shots, big old bass hook, just sets his rod on the ground. I throw for salmonids straight braid or nano, tons of ppl try to get into my business and tell me I should use a leader, don't worry about it cuz I'm about to get a fish on. Do your thing, find what works for you and stay confident with it, mostly just go get a darn line in the water because a) you won't catch anything from the couch and b ) we give these fish way too much credit sometimes through the insanity (although gotta admit, the insanity can be fun too). Old adage is true, lures are meant to attract more fisherman than fish, back to basics, keep it simple, yada yada, just get out there and fish.

[SlappadaBass]

Thanks for the help guys, I looked through the regs and couldn't find anything that explicitly forbid using flies and lures. Guess it was just that idiot who told me using streamer flies would get me a ticket. Oddly enough he was the one who introduced me to flossing. Would fishing pressure also affect the chances of aggression strikes? The place I fish is so close to my home so its the only place I can go after class. There's usually 10+ guys fishing there all within the same 100m stretch of river. 

[DILLIGAF?!]

Thanks for the help guys, I looked through the regs and couldn't find anything that explicitly forbid using flies and lures. Guess it was just that idiot who told me using streamer flies would get me a ticket. Oddly enough he was the one who introduced me to flossing. Would fishing pressure also affect the chances of aggression strikes? The place I fish is so close to my home so its the only place I can go after class. There's usually 10+ guys fishing there all within the same 100m stretch of river. 

That's actually a challenge. Yesterday I had the chance to fish 6am - 12noon. Arrived at a very popular pool around 6:30 with 3 people fishing already all of them, I have fished before. Asked if I can join, it was cool, asked what's the menu, all were using white beads (and 3 of them already landed a few.) just as I was rigging up, one landed a nice steel. Nice. bead it is. Managed to hook up in my 1st 5 minutes of drifting. Then weirdly, they shut off the bite. for about 50 minutes no one was getting strikes with a few foul hooks. Time for a change up. Wooly buggers. black. HOw I wish I had my fly gear that day. Landed Coho, Chinny & steel. all on black woolies under my pin. I just notice that salmon can really turn on the bite, it's non stop.