Fish IDs Shiner/Chub?

[DSmith]

I would love to get some feedback from some members here. They were both caught from a small creek in Burlington Ontario (near the Lake)

http://imgur.com/a/FYJxq

I think the first is a Striped Shiner (but could it be a common?),

I keep getting different answers for the second fish. I think it's perhaps a hornyhead chub, but I've also gotten river chub, and juvenile red horse, and fallfish. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

thanks so much.

 

[MuskieBait]

Check out this link for ID key:

http://www.ontariofishingforums.com/forum/topic/21313-biggest-creek-horny-head-chub/page-2

You can also use the Baitfish Primers:

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/349568.pdf

1) What is different between Common Shiner and Striped Shiner?

Hint, look at the scales on the shoulder of the fish.

2) Hornyhead Chub vs. River Chub is often very difficult since they are very similar. It is often misleading identifying fish by colour alone, so a combination of characteristics are needed.

Hornyhead Chub - red to orange tinged fins, shorter snout compared to River Chub, weak lateral stripe in females and juveniles, stronger spot at the base of tail in females and juveniles, scales with thicker dusky to black margins.

River Chub - brown to grey fins, longer snout compared to Hornyhead Chub, strong lateral strip in females and juveniles, weak to no spot at the base of tail in females and juveniles (although a black spot on the caudal fin can confuse people), scales with thinner dusky margins.

~~~

Try to figure it out again. After you gave it some more thoughts, come back and I'll confirm your answer.

 

[instapump416]

Welcome to OFF!

Nice catch

 

[DSmith]

thanks for those resources. The first one is amazing.

Ok.

First one is definitely a common shiner, due to the smaller scaling pattern behind its head, and the red tipped fins, and pinkish belly.

The second one I'm still struggling with. I could say River Chub because to me the fish has a long snout, and weak spot at the base of its tail. However it's fins are orange/red and it has a weak lateral line. Am I missing something?

thanks so much!
Definitely learning things already on this forum already.

 

[MuskieBait]

First one is a Common Shiner. Yes, the crowded small scales on the back of the head is ALWAYS the key to tell Common Shiner apart from Striped Shiner. Well done.

Second one is...HA! I'm going back and forth myself. One minute, it looks more like a River Chub. The next minute it looks more like a Hornyhead Chub. These two are truly had to tell apart. I tend to not ID the juveniles and females unless I catch a male from the same area that can give me a more positive call. The coloration of both species is so variable from stream to stream that it can get confusing. I've caught River Chub that are almost bronze in colour without any obvious lateral stripe. On the other hand, I've caught Hornyhead Chub that have a stronger lateral strip on the side that looks very much like the River Chub. If I didn't catch a male from the same nest, it would be hard to tell.

However, to me, River Chub looks like a Creek Chub without the spot on the dorsal fin. It is saying that overall shape, size of head and colour resembles the Creek Chub much more. Hornyhead Chub usually just look different from other Chubs and makes me go "hm, this is different".

For what it's worth, I think your fish is a River Chub. But photos can often play tricks with colours, shape and size.

 

[DSmith]

Thanks so much for the lesson!
I really appreciate it.
It's also comforting knowing the pros have a hard time with Chub ids as well.

I caught this chub (which I called a Hornyhead) out of the same hole a couple of weeks ago. I think I'm going to have to revisit all my chub ids.

http://imgur.com/hkVUTlA


thanks!

 

[Fishing Urban Ontario]

I actually did the exact same thing your doing right now for the minnows that i had caught last year. can be so tough to tell the diffs