Natives, MNR reach commercial fishing accord

[miles]

http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/2013/03/11/new-native-commercial-fishing-agreement

 

[miles]

Natives, MNR reach commercial fishing accord 2






Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:12:39 EDT PM

The area covered by the new SON native commercial fishing agreement.







Scott Dunn
Sun Times staff

The Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources announced a new five-year commercial fishing agreement with Saugeen Ojibway Nation on Monday which permits native commercial fishermen to set their nets in Colpoys Bay and Owen Sound Bay year-round.

“Under the previous agreement, SON had agreed not to fish in the inner waters of Owen Sound and Colpoys Bay year-round and the outer bays during peak times for recreational angling and boating,” MNR minister’s office spokeswoman Jessica Spindler said.
“Under the new agreement, SON will have greater access to these waters and will fish year round,” she said Monday in an interview. This change is effective April 26 — 60 days after the new agreement was signed and will continue to the agreement’s end on Feb. 25, 2018.

Copies of the new agreement are available by calling the MNR Upper Great Lakes Management Unit at 519-371-0420. A copy was not provided as part of the background information Monday but they will be available today.

“MNR and SON will monitor commercial fishing and recreational use in the bays and will meet in October 2013 to make sure that both commercial and recreational anglers can continue to safely co-exist, while maintaining a sustainable fishery,” MNR said in a release.
“MNR will continue to seek input on the management of the fishery through fisheries management zone councils (groups made up of 15-20 volunteers representing a variety of stakeholder and interest groups) and meetings with our partners,” Spindler added by e-mail.

Conflicts between the native commercial fishery and largely non-native recreational fishing groups have arisen during the annual Owen Sound Salmon Spectacular fishing derby in August. Commercial nets have been cut, in one case blades were set on them allegedly in response and tensions grew between sports fishermen who trolled for fish and native fishermen who set their commercial nets in the same waters.

“The SON agreement recognizes the importance of both commercial fishing and recreational activities, such as angling and boating, and will provide certainty and clarity on the management of fisheries in the Bruce Peninsula area,” Minister of Natural Resources David Orazietti said in a ministry news release.
Ontario Minister of Aboriginal Affairs David Zimmer said “Agreements like this one are significant in advancing the province’s relationship with individual communities so that First Nations can participate in the management of natural resources.”

Spindler said there are provisions in the agreement to help ensure both kinds of fishing can co-exist safely in the bay, including requirements that commercial nets have standardized markings and nets won’t be longer than 300 metres to maximize marker visibility and those in the bays will have mesh of 4.5 inches (11.5 centimetres) or greater.

In March, April, October and November, “commercial fishers will make best efforts” not to set commercial nets within a one-kilometre radius of the mouths of Bothwell Creek, Colpoys Creek, Waterton Creek, Keefers Creek and Gleason Brook, to protect spawning salmon and rainbow trout.

“Ultimately they do have the priority to harvest fish in the area based on treaty rights and that’s recognized that they have rights to a sustenance commercial fishery,” Spindler said.
But there could be room for compromise during the derby involving native fishermen exercising discretion, she suggested. “The SON has agreed again, you know, to avoid certain areas during spawning times. I think a request could be made that they perhaps not fish during the derby.”
She also said “I think the groups do want to co-exist peacefully in this area.”

Asked if she thinks this fishing agreement will ensure that happens, Spindler said it’s a “positive step towards recognizing the treaty rights that the SON do have to fish in that area while respecting that there is recreational fishing going on in the area that area residents enjoy as well.”

The last five-year native commercial fisheries agreement, signed July 12, 2005, between the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources and both local First Nations, angered the local sports fishing community when it expanded native commercial netting into Colpoys Bay and Owen Sound Bay for much of the year. The commercial fishing agreement allowed native gill net fishing up to the mouths of Owen Sound and Colpoys Bay.

In that old agreement, in August the lines moved back as far as White Cloud and Griffith islands and across to Vail’s Point so as not to interfere with fishing derbies. The agreement also permitted native commercial fishing as far east as Craigleith on Georgian Bay and south to Point Clarke on Lake Huron.
The new agreement was worked out with the help of former Supreme Court Justice Frank Iacobucci, whom the government retained to facilitate discussions. A framework agreement containing the process for negotiation was signed Aug. 23, 2011.

Contents of the new agreement highlighted in government news releases also includes that it “provides clarity and certainty” about the exercise of fishing rights, that fishing will take place in “a sustainable manner, based on sound science and the collaborative setting of total allowable catch.”
It “recognizes the importance of protecting and conserving the fishery,” sets out “processes for monitoring, assessment, information sharing and determining sustainable harvest limits,” “enhances economic development” for SON, “establishes a co-operative approach to compliance” and “commits both parties to effective public education and communications.”

Catch limits and other recreational fishing regulations won’t be affected by the fishing agreement, an issue some have been curious about, Spindler said.

The agreement covers areas recognized by SON as traditional waters: Waters surrounding the Bruce Peninsula from Point Clark in Lake Huron to the international border and around the Bruce Peninsula into Georgian Bay to Craigleith.

In 1993, both local native communities, the Chippewas of Nawash Unceded First Nation and Saugeen First Nation, won the Ontario Court of Justice decision R. v Jones and Nadjiwon. It recognized that collectively the SON has an aboriginal and treaty right to fish for sustenance commercial purposes in the waters of Lake Huron which is protected under Section 35 of the Constitution Act.
Agreements signed in 2000 and 2005 were not fully made public. Both Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound MP Larry Miller and then-MPP Bill Murdoch went to Ontario’s Information and Privacy Commissioner, who ordered in 2006 the Ministry of Natural Resources to make the agreement public. The privacy commissioner approved the FOI request and ordered the MNR to release the document by Sept. 5, 2006. However, at the last minute, the First Nations appealed the ruling, which blocked the release and triggered a judicial review of the FOI order. The First Nations and MNR’s refusal to release the agreement has fueled speculation about its contents.

Neither Saugeen First Nation Chief Randall Kahgee nor Chippewas of Nawash Chief Scott Lee were available for comment Monday. They were quoted in the provincial government’s news release.
Lee said: “SON looks forward to implementing the fishing agreement. The agreement sets a new and innovative standard for government-to-government relations. It demonstrates what can be achieved through good-faith negotiations based on mutual trust and respect.”
Kahgee said: “The new agreement continues to build on the progress that SON and MNR have made since Jones and Nadjiwon was decided in 1993. SON looks forward to continuing its work with Ontario and other government agencies to ensure that the waters and lands that support our fisheries are protected for future generations. This agreement is a true milestone in our relationship.”

 

[NADO]

“recognizes the importance of protecting and conserving the fishery,” sets out “processes for monitoring, assessment, information sharing and determining sustainable harvest limits,”

Does the above quote mean that there will be a limit to the amount of commercial fishing they are permitted to do on their reserve? I have no issue with Natives not having to pay for commercial fishing licenses but there really needs to be quota's set. After reading this post i'm not really sure if one is going to be set, it just stated that conservation will be kept in mind?

Im not saying its right but there is a reason these nets get cut and altercations happen. These rights are being pushed too far. What about all of the volunteer work, donations and tax dollars that go into creating and maintaining these fisheries? There needs to be some sort of middle ground and this is certainly very far from the middle.

“Ultimately they do have the priority to harvest fish in the area based on treaty rights and that’s recognized that they have rights to a sustenance commercial fishery,”

I guess based on this quote if we want to live in a country where everyone has equal rights then North America is not the place to be and it never will be.

 

[miles]

Here is some more information coming out today.

http://www.bayshorebroadcasting.ca/news_item.php?NewsID=55407

MP, MPP Slam Fishing Agreement
Tuesday, March 12, 2013 2:33 PMby Matt Villeneuve
Both Miller and Walker feel new fishing agreement is a slap in the face of sportsmen.

click to open MP3 version
or click the play button to listen now.




(Regional ) -
Native commercial fishermen can now fish in Colpoys Bay and Owen Sound Bay year round -- and that's ruffling some feather across the region.

It's part of a new five year agreement between the Ministry of Natural Resources and the Saugeen Ojibway Nation.

Under previous deals -- native fishermen weren't allowed to fish the inner waters of Owen Sound and Colpoys Bay year round and the outer bays during peak times for recreational angling and boating.

Now, beginning April 26th -- native fishermen will have greater access to these waters and fish year round.

Bruce Grey Owen Sound MP, Larry Miller, tells Bayshore Broadcasting News the agreement is a slap in the face to sportsmen in the area.

Miller notes sportsmen and conservation clubs have done a lot of work restocking fish in the two bays -- and they are worried the new deal will kill their work.

Miller is also worried about the tourism impact of the sports fishery.

Bruce Grey Owen Sound MPP Bill Walker wants to know what will happen to local fishing derbies like the Salmon Spectacular.

Tensions between native and non-native fishermen have been an issue in the pasty -- and Miller is worried this agreement may lead to more violence.

The Bruce Peninsula Sportsmen's Association is concerned about the sports fishery and enforcement.

The M-N-R and the Saugeen Ojibway Nation say they will monitor the situation to make sure both commercial and recreational anglers can safely co-exist -- while maintaining a sustainable fishery.

Both the Chiefs of Saugeen First Nation and the Chippewas of Nawash are calling the agreement a milestone in native relations with the province.

Miller says some people have suggested it would be best to let the the commercial fishermen empty out the bays and then they'll start again.
>>>>>>>>>

Sport Fishers sold out by Ministry of Natural Resources: Response from MPP Walker and MP Miller

Bill Walker, MPP for Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound, and Larry Miller MP, are very disappointed with the new 5 year fishing agreement announced for the local commercial fishery.

"I am very concerned about the implications of this agreement. What happens to the fishing derbies such as Salmon Spectacular? What is the potential impact on tourism and our economy?” stated Walker. “I definitely want to hear from our local clubs and stakeholders."

"Conservation and sportsmen’s groups who have worked tirelessly to support and promote the local sports fishery, have once again been ignored and snubbed by the province," said Miller. "Georgian Bay is big enough for both the commercial and sports fishery. There is no need for commercial fishermen to be in Colpoys and Owen Sound Bays"
Among the principal concerns that have been expressed in regards to this decision is that of safety. A commercial fishery could have severe repercussions on safety due to the presence of commercial fishing vessels in the bays of Colpoys and Owen Sound.


Walker and Miller will be discussing with local stakeholders on the issue and will be speaking with Ministry officials about their concerns with this decision.

 

[miles]

Does the above quote mean that there will be a limit to the amount of commercial fishing they are permitted to do on their reserve? I have no issue with Natives not having to pay for commercial fishing licenses but there really needs to be quota's set. After reading this post i'm not really sure if one is going to be set, it just stated that conservation will be kept in mind?

Im not saying its right but there is a reason these nets get cut and altercations happen. These rights are being pushed too far. What about all of the volunteer work, donations and tax dollars that go into creating and maintaining these fisheries? There needs to be some sort of middle ground and this is certainly very far from the middle.


I guess based on this quote if we want to live in a country where everyone has equal rights then North America is not the place to be and it never will be.

I don't believe that there is much if any monitoring of the fish taken and I think one has to be implemented and strictly enforced in order to keep our fishery healthy.

"In March, April, October and November, “commercial fishers will make best efforts” not to set commercial nets within a one-kilometre radius of the mouths of Bothwell Creek, Colpoys Creek, Waterton Creek, Keefers Creek and Gleason Brook, to protect spawning salmon and rainbow trout"

best efforts?!

 

[free reign]

Say goodbye to all the rainbows as we know it!!
Hell why do I wanna fish Huron when there will be no fish!!Lets get a brain here!!!

 

[miles]

Well considering Lake trout over 16 inches and whitefish over 20 inches are very restricted for consumption for Georgian Bay area according to MNR, the salmon and rainbow fisheries are going to be really hurt by this.

 

[BackwoodsBassr]

I was reading what the harvests of the great lakes used to be and it is pretty depressing to see how much they have been depleted.

I do not think this commercial fishing initiative is a good idea but at the same time I think there are other things we are doing that are more harmful to our fisheries.

If you want to help solve the problem you have to become politically active. The more anglers/hunters/outdoorsmen and other conservationists ban toghether the more effective the delivery of the message becomes.

Sad thing is: a lot of people, including outdoorsmen, rely on jobs created by industries that do not have nature's best interest in mind. This, coupled with the fact that taking action on these issues isn't easy and requires a sacrifice of time and effort, means that our interests will continue to take a back seat to the detrimental commercial exploitation of our resources.

 

[NADO]

If you want to help solve the problem you have to become politically active. The more anglers/hunters/outdoorsmen and other conservationists ban toghether the more effective the delivery of the message becomes.

I dont think democracy really plays a role in this situation.

 

[BackwoodsBassr]

I dont think democracy really plays a role in this situation.

That could be true too it depends on how you view democracy. Would you mind elaborating? I feel like you might have a pretty interesting point.

Here's my perspective: In a liberal democracy everyone is supposed to be governed by the rule of law. The constitution (which, in Canada, includes the many treaties signed by the crown and various native groups) is the highest form of law and all other legislation must conform to it. The courts have the final authority to interpret most aspects of the constitution which is why SCJ Iacobucci was working on this.

In Canada,our constitution can be ammended, there are several amending formulas, all of which are at heart determined by the voters.

I'm not saying our system is perfect but I still have some hope that the citizens of this great country can make changes, for beter of for worse.

 

[miles]

What I'm concerned about is the unmonitored harvesting of sport fish.

Yes the FN have a right to take these fish but I belive some sort quota must be set up in order to keep these fisheries around in the future.

So many private groups have worked so hard to help these runs of steelhead and salmon. To give the FN free reign to take as many as they want and now further into and year round into Owen sound and Colpoys bay is, how our local MPP put it "A slap in the face to sportsman".

 

[BackwoodsBassr]

What I'm concerned about is the unmonitored harvesting of sport fish.

Yes the FN have a right to take these fish but I belive some sort quota must be set up in order to keep these fisheries around in the future.

So many private groups have worked so hard to help these runs of steelhead and salmon. To give the FN free reign to take as many as they want and now further into and year round into Owen sound and Colpoys bay is, how our local MPP put it "A slap in the face to sportsman".

I totally agree with you buddy. Thanks for bringing this issue up.

 

[Clab]

I have a trailer near Colpoys bay. This upsets me greatly. I remember fishing the lower French river before FN's had a walleye netting bonanza it was pretty awesome. Fifteen years later not so much. I hope officials do monitor whats being harvested as strictly as they monitor sports fishing. Colpoys has a fantastic population of trout I'd hate to see it get fished out. As. For the 1km near mouths of rivers with the nets … O_O So your telling me these fish full of eggs just magically hang out with in that 1km area. I think they swim in from all over. Either way egg loaded spawners will be hauled. I also read that the nets will have a 4.5 inch diameter. I hope there are fish left

 

[miles]

I totally agree with you buddy. Thanks for bringing this issue up.

Thanks for your input

 

[miles]

I have a trailer near Colpoys bay. This upsets me greatly. I remember fishing the lower French river before FN's had a walleye netting bonanza it was pretty awesome. Fifteen years later not so much. I hope officials do monitor whats being harvested as strictly as they monitor sports fishing. Colpoys has a fantastic population of trout I'd hate to see it get fished out. As. For the 1km near mouths of rivers with the nets … O_O So your telling me these fish full of eggs just magically hang out with in that 1km area. I think they swim in from all over. Either way egg loaded spawners will be hauled. I also read that the nets will have a 4.5 inch diameter. I hope there are fish left


I also hope these fish are not fished out, I love fishing Huron and its tributaries, in fact I have never fished a lake O trib for trout.

 

[coldfeet]

Tough issue to come up with a solution for all. The treaties are legal and natives have far more in this province than a lot of people are aware of, although historically I don't know how you can make land deals with a culture that didn't follow the concept of land ownership per se. When they were signed way back when, I'm sure no one foreseen this. The hunter and gathering lifestyle which in my opinion was enviromentally sound is long gone, fishing is no longer done the traditional way when 300m nets are used with motorized boats. Who will manage the fishery and who pays for it? Is this a MNR or DFO jurisdiction? If the fishery collapses what then? It would be in their best interest to maintain it but how are both parties proposing to do that?

 

[Steelie Steve]

So let me get this straight. I think I read between the lines and the summary of this whole agreement should read like this..

1. The MNR will stock the fish in the lake with taxpayers and anglers money.
2. The Conservation Authorities will work hard on preserving and maintaining quality spawning rivers and streams paid for again by taxpayers and anglers money.
3. Local anglers groups and other community groups and volunteers will work very hard organizing events, doing stocking programs, raising money to make the fishery better.
4. The people in the communities in this area who lost or may loose their jobs or businesses and the many other business struggling due to a lack of tourism revenue from an already existing poor sport fishery will be taken care of by tax payers who will provide assistance through welfare and other government programs to help people find jobs.

and

The Native commercial guys can drop their nets in front of spawning rivers and reap all the benefits while selling the fish back to taxpayers..

I dont know about you guys but this sounds like the MNR worked out a great deal and is more then fair to everyone especially the taxpayes AKA the MAJORITY. Way to go MNR....

So a couple of my ideas for solutions to this problem...

1. The MNR should stop stocking and maintaining the lakes and rivers with the fish that the commercial fisherman are taking and let the fishery completely collapse and put the hard earned taxpayers dollars from stocking and other related programs to in-land fisheries and fisheries that are not near any commercial netting. In other words use tax payers dollars for tax payers benefits. When there's no more fish left there's no more commercial guys left.. problem solved.

2. change the agreement to just take all the taxpayers money being lost now and just give it to the commercial native fisherman if they agree to not commercially fish anymore and let the fishery take its natural course and give the fishing groups a fighting chance to achieve their goals.

3. This is my favorite solution.. Let the native commercial fisherman continue as they are but make it illegal for tax payers and non native businesses to purchase Native caught fish. If they have no one to sell to they wont need to take so many fish.

4. Teach the Ministry and local communities how to grow some balls so they can stand up to Native commercial fisherman and let the Commercial guys know they aren't happy with the negative impact that this causes on local tourism and revenue and show them the potential of a better sport fishery.

5. Spend more money to let people know how detrimental purchasing Native fish is and show them the potential of a great sport fishery to their community.

6. Determine what percentage it costs tax payers to maintain this commercial fishery and let the natives pay it back in full or threaten to cut it off and let them go out of business when it collapses.

Fact: http://fishandboat.com/images/fisheries/research/erietribs2004/000index.pdf

The Steelhead fishery in Pennsylvania, an area about the size between Wasaga and Owen sound generated about 9.5 million from anglers sport fishing in the lake and rivers... Steelheading there generates 5.7 million in new value-added activity and creates 219 jobs... Wouldn't that be nice for anglers and the communities in the Georgian bay and lake Huron area..

Here's something to consider. Will this agreement cause this type of thing from happening in Owen Sound and surounding comunities? 3 or 4 years ago the walleye fishery around midland and honey harbor was as good or better then the Bay of Quinte and being so close to GTA and still growing it had the potential to boost Midland and areas revenue probably by millions. Then the native comercial guy came in and dropped his nets in the spawning channels and wiped out spawning and returning walleye and after just 2 years of this netting (as the MNR sat and watched) the walleye fishery is almost non existant. 4 years ago you could go out and get a 100 a day up to 16lbs and now you're lucky if you get 1 or 2 a day. The sad part is as a sport angler your limit is like 1 fisha day.. the netters took almost 10,000 in 2 years. Now thats fair!!

Steve

 

[93DelSol]

I have a great Idea! Why don't we get two birds stoned at once and give the natives Quebec and let the french deal with them or leave!! Long gone are the days where they wouldn't rape and pillage the land even it is is their "right".

 

[apz245]

I was reading what the harvests of the great lakes used to be and it is pretty depressing to see how much they have been depleted.

I do not think this commercial fishing initiative is a good idea but at the same time I think there are other things we are doing that are more harmful to our fisheries.

If you want to help solve the problem you have to become politically active. The more anglers/hunters/outdoorsmen and other conservationists ban toghether the more effective the delivery of the message becomes.

Sad thing is: a lot of people, including outdoorsmen, rely on jobs created by industries that do not have nature's best interest in mind. This, coupled with the fact that taking action on these issues isn't easy and requires a sacrifice of time and effort, means that our interests will continue to take a back seat to the detrimental commercial exploitation of our resources.

was gonna say the same thing but would have worded it worse, great post.

 

[BackwoodsBassr]

was gonna say the same thing but would have worded it worse, great post.

Thanks dude! If anything I'm sure you would have said it shorter and sweeter lol.