I dare you....

[Graham Bristow]

The MNR has a new fisheries management plan and is asking for your feedback... This could be important for all steelhead and brown trout fans because I think steelhead and Brown trout are at risk and some steelhead runs could potentially be wiped out...

Read through it.. Even though they don't come right out a say it I think there is a hidden agenda that could mean big problems for steelhead... We all know the MNR has lots invested in Atlantics and it's big priority for them right.. so here's my theory and opinion... I hope I'm wrong.

The MNR's plan is to put emphasis (their goal #1) on native species in the rivers and that means Brook trout and Atlantics for lake Ontario tribs.. Steelhead are not native guys and neither are browns, or pacific salmon.. If you read the proposal alone you would think no big deal, looks good, because chances are left alone the steelhead and browns will do ok, but.... if you read the MNR's Credit River proposal to you'll see that because the Credit is a major river for the Altantic salmon project there is the sad proposal of removing the resident brown trout and limiting or stopping steelhead migrations over the dams because they directly compete with Atlantics and Brook trout. So is it possible that if this MNR Credit river proposal takes affect and the results look promising on the credit will the Ganny, Bowmanville, Duffins creek and all other lake Ontario tribs with a dam or controllable barrier be put under the same type of management program to protect NATIVE species, AKA Atlantics and Specs... Why did they build a weir in Duffin creek anyways? Hmmm.. is the long term goal there to eventually prevent steelhead and only let up the atlantics?...Stopping steelhead at the dams will kill the runs on those rivers..If you think your safe on the Gbay and huron tribs think again, when the steelhead disappear on lake O tribs there will be lots more pressure on G-baym huron and Erie tribs.. this could effect us all.....And did I just hear something about no counting on the Ganny this year. Why?. Why count them if they'll eventually close the dam on them anyways right?, is that an indications of something coming for that river to. Is the Ganny next after the Credit?.. just a thought???. If the MNR's proposal for the Credit goes through it could mean the end of the steelhead runs and the ruining of a great brown trout fishery in the Credit river. I'm not willing to take that chance so I gave them my feedback.. So, I dare everyone to send in their feedback. Even if it's just to say that steelhead is important to you and you'd like to see it protected. It will take you 5 minutes.... I dare everyone because most guys probably wont take the time and the end results could be not in your favor.....

Read the Credit proposal summary from the Izaak Walton club and the MNR fisheries management plan to decide for yourself.. Is the MNR telling us the whole story or is there something else there they don't want us to really know about? If they came right out a said we're going to stop the steelhead from getting past the dams in favor of atlantics and specs they would have lots of resistance and negative feed back, that's the last thing a government agency wants right? But the way they word this plan is in a way that this could potentially happen quietly with little resistance and then they could just say we put the proposal out there and nobody had a problem with it...... Like I said... I hope I'm wrong...Send them your 5 minute feedback...

http://www.ebr.gov.on.ca/ERS-WEB-External/displaynoticecontent.do?noticeId=MTIwODEx&statusId=MTgwODU4


http://iwffc.ca/credit-river-fisheries-management-plan-november-2013/

 

[cptpronin]

I do like a good conspiracy theory.

 

[Shmogley]

tinfoil hats aside..
the reading between the lines here is important. especially with politics.
it does seem a bit weird after looking into it.

at one point they are saying that non-indigenous species that have natural sustaining populations and arent considered destructive are going to be managed as they were.
at other points they are saying indirectly that species that compete with, say, atlantics, have to be removed.. or mitigated.. take that as you will

i know how incompetent these people are at large scale projects.. for example they've been pushing this atlantic agenda for a while now and i still rarely see any results. and hear about terrible returns on numbers etc, when they bother to release them.
but they still want to bash their heads against that cement wall, much like the rainbow trying to get over some of these ladders. (sorry couldnt resist)

doesnt seem as direct a threat to trout fisheries as the original topic states, to me personally, but none the less i sent them my thoughts and let them know that all trout species here are valuable to me and the many people who come here for world class fishing opportunities. to see them pushed off the lists for something that hasnt been successfull any more then it has in the past.. its just a terrible idea to be frank.

nothing wrong with trying to give the atlantics a boost but the other species fit in well to these waterbodies as far as i can tell. whats the problem?
its not like the rainbows and browns are doing what gobies and some carp have done, or other invasive species that destroy whole ecosystems.

unless someone can enlighten me more about it i have to say it just sounds like bad management. imo

thanks for bringing this up though. never would have found this otherwise.

 

[BASSMASTER19]

imo, the mnr should give up with the atlantics, heck at the dams all they do is lift up the 1 atlantic and throw back all the kings to try and get up themselves, i see no point in wasting time in a species that cant make it on their own

 

[JuniorFloatnFly]

If dams were taken out on both the credit and humber, they would probably be the most productive rivers in the province for multiple species. Based from what I have read there should be more money spent into research and rehabilation opposed to stocking. As currently it is clear that the present strain or conditions arent suitable as they have been stocking millions of frys with very little returns...

 

[JDean]

Most of the weirs and dams were put in place on the rivers along time ago and there purposes were two fold. Some were put in for flood control and others were put in for Lamprey control. Some act as both. In response to the weir at Duffins, that has been in place in its current position (just north of 401) for at least 25 years....maybe even 30. It was erected as a lamprey barrier. prior to the erection of that structure there was a dam that was in place just south of Kingston Rd. Commonly referred to as Moodies dam. That acted as a barrier but became broken down and was removed after the new dam was built. This dam does not impede any upstream travel to salmon or trout but does impair the lamprey movement.

As far as the steelhead being eradicated, I don't see it happening.

 

[Kit]

The Atlantic Salmon project should be scrapped. Its honestly a waste of money of trying to spawn fish in the hatcheries then being released into the tribs money should be going to river improvements if needed. And of course a little more funding for CO's and stocking trout etc when needed.

 

[Dozer]

As much as we love steelhead because most here were born and raised on them, the fish are turning into invaders. Rainbows have turned into an invading species and I'm under the impression we here in Ontario and New York are getting attacked hard for stocking so many rainbows (although numbers are declining? ) because they are starting to show up in Quebec ( which I think has a mandatory catch and kill on rainbows ) and even on the east coast - which could be threatening other provinces / states and Atlantic stocking efforts. I don't blame them - for example - if those jumpy big head or silver or whatever they're called carp were stocked in Lala Land as part of a stocking program to get a population established down south and made their way up here into the lake and threatened OUR existing fishery, heck we'd be up in arms. North shore Superior you have guys tossing steelhead bankside because they're not native and competing with their lake run brookie populations. The way I see it we are currently at the beginning of a huge shift that is about to unfold in regards to the fish populations of Lake Ontario - out with the old and in with the new...

 

[Dozer]

..and yes, both the plans (Izaac Walton specifically mentions steelhead reductions and the MNR proposal uses the words native and non native but we know what they mean ) focus on steelhead and browns. The two main competitors in the river for Atlantic fry... it seems pretty clear now whats going to happen...

 

[miles]

The MNR probably is dimwitted enough to put the huge economic boost by the pacific salmon and rainbows in jeopardy. Dumping millions of fish into waterways with lethal temps and low oxygen content year after year. How many of these proposed altantic tribs headlands have real estate or heavy agriculture development? That alone threatens the fishery not to mention its not like the atlantic population slowly dwindled fifty or even a hundred years ago they all died off over a hundred years ago much because of the development going on then . I think huge changes would have to be made to accommodate these fish on a massive scale like removing dams (like that will ever happen) and huge stream recovery and protection plans. It doesn't even seem like they are making much of an effort, just banger their heads against the wall with some ill-conceived plan and wondering why it isn't working. The unwillingness of both the canadian and US governments to take the asian carp threat seriously will more than likely lead to the destruction of both of these fisheries soon anyway

I wonder if in New Zealand and Patagonia if the browns face the same threat and are considered invasive and garbage fish too.

 

[steelhead101]

I used to be dead against the project but what i didn't realize is the project is 70 percent privately funded, The program it self should be carried on but from a more strategical standpoint. why not consult with the st.Mary's project to find which strain of salmon is the best. try 50 thousand fry at the most optimal time in there lives and put the rest of funding into stream rehabilitation. One thing i think we can all agree on is that the project should be carried in a manner that doesn't impact current fish populations in a negative way. One very good argument i had read on the subject was the atlantic salmon they are stocking are not even a native strain, that strain was lost 100 years ago . The project need a leader/spokes person, a Facebook page with garbage information doesn't cut it. Us anglers have so many negative points to argue and they have no one to prove us wrong ( except for that OFAH guy but he seems to have his head up his ass) wouldn't it be great to hear how many returned, what strain is working, what they are doing, how they are doing it, what we can do etc etc.

 

[NADO]

Just getting into reading the document and I like what I see so far. I always vote in favor of native species but I also don't see any massive hits to steelhead fishing on the Great Lakes. Maybe a few rivers tilt in favor of Atlantics, that wouldn't be a bad thing in my opinion.

Goal 1: Healthy ecosystems that support self-sustaining native fish communities.
Goal 2: Sustainable fisheries that provide benefits for Ontarians.
Goal 3: An effective and efficient fish management program.
Goal 4: Science and information to inform fisheries policy and management
decisions.
Goal 5: Informed and engaged stakeholders, partners, Aboriginal communities
and general public.

 

[Captain Barty]

The writing is certainly on the wall Graham. Like it or love it I guess.... Another theoretical pie in the sky plan from the MNR that won't work with the rivers being in the shape they are. Enjoy the fishery while we can....


And Dozer comparing steelhead to big head carp..... Honestly give your head a shake...

 

[Dozer]

You are interpreting the example the wrong way - I shouldn't have used big head as an example - a bit on the extreme side :lol:

This project is only a 1/4 of the way in. ~15 years to go. I'm certain we cannot stop the project but we can change its course slightly. Someone on the other forums brought up something very interesting. If the steelhead are migrating out ( stockers are more likely than wild type to stray ) then maybe the Atlantics in the lake are going out too? If only we knew what the fish were doing out in the lake than they'd have a better idea of how to make the project work better.

 

[NADO]

The problem with angler input on decisions like this is that we only think of our own interests and what suits us best where as the mnr looks at it from the viewpoint of what is best for all stakeholders involved with the biggest stakeholder being the environment.

There is so much good being talked about in that document from stream rehabilitation to invasive species management to more restrictions on new development based on environmental impact. Meanwhile steelheaders are nit picking about the small details in the document that affect our own self interest.

Float fishing for steelhead is by far my favourite type of fishing to do. But the fishery is more than something I get to enjoy for recreational purposes.

 

[goodentight]

do you know what would be cool. If they stocked fish with integrated laz3r beams on their head so in clear water the rivers during runs would look like some tron/matrix sh*t

Id support that!

 

[goodentight]

I am making jokes because I don't know enough about this yet/ where I stand.

I love hooking up with big steelies, and I know how poor the atlantic project has been so far.

 

[cptpronin]

do you know what would be cool. If they stocked fish with integrated laz3r beams on their head so in clear water the rivers during runs would look like some tron/matrix sh*t

Id support that!

Borg Trout?

 

[steelhead101]

The problem with angler input on decisions like this is that we only think of our own interests and what suits us best where as the mnr looks at it from the viewpoint of what is best for all stakeholders involved with the biggest stakeholder being the environment.

There is so much good being talked about in that document from stream rehabilitation to invasive species management to more restrictions on new development based on environmental impact. Meanwhile steelheaders are nit picking about the small details in the document that affect our own self interest.

Float fishing for steelhead is by far my favourite type of fishing to do. But the fishery is more than something I get to enjoy for recreational purposes.

no offense, but what would lake ontario atlantic salmon really be good for any ways? half the population can't even eat the damn fish and the other half can only have a few a year... The strain there stocking isn't even a native strain! A run of even 20 thousand in the credit serves next to no economical benefit compared to Chinooks,rainbows and browns that already have a huge economic spin off, whether it be ol skipper hustling Chinese knock off reels, dirty ol boots turning into fresh sushi at your favourite restaurant, doesn't matter. they make money!

When it comes to stream rehabilitation theres only so many trees you can plant, and so many banks you can fix. then what? funnel the credit through a massive brita filter? theres certain things you just can't change about the river, it will never be what it was a 100 years ago when they died off and theres no way in hell it will ever be what it was 100 years before that when they flourished.

 

[classic drifter]

When it comes to stream rehabilitation theres only so many trees you can plant, and so many banks you can fix. then what? funnel the credit through a massive brita filter? theres certain things you just can't change about the river, it will never be what it was a 100 years ago when they died off and theres no way in hell it will ever be what it was 100 years before that when they flourished.
[/quote]
true say man! true say! whats lost is lost, but there will be always be room for changes and improvement, perhaps a few more garbage bins along side of the banks, maybe with this people would think of tossing it in there besides the river bank or in the water, stuff like that, but as far as i know with the atlantic program, i dont think its going along well, never hooked into one, so for all that stocked fish they released only a few made it back, not so good IMO, and ive never got a stocked fish yet either, whether it be a salmon, steelie brown, always that ive hooked into the wild ones, and it always make me wonder if the stocked ones even did make it to spawning stage, i dunno, just my 2 cents in this,