Pearls Before Swine

[Dozer]

Theres an eye opener! :blink:

Now I know where I'll go for roe

 

[NOTTA STEELER]

In reference to the Great Lakes fishing.
I was a regular , yearly participant in the " Toronto Star Great Salmon Hunt " . My buddy and I would venture out in his 16 foot Gruman aluminum boat with a 25hp Yammy . We had a two downrigger set up ( manual ) and usually launched at Humber Bay Park because there was alot less traffic there . We would usually head east toward the island and fish at 80 - 100 feet of water . We would keep tabs on the weigh in stations for what the leaders were entering . Pretty much , if the fish was 33 lbs. or better , it was worth killing it to weigh it in . If it was under weight we would take the time to revive them and send them back . One such day fishing off the island , we were at 110 feet of water downrigger set at 80 feet , I had a silver prism Croc on about 4 inches long . My rod went off and 30 minutes later , we boated a 35 lb. hen Chinook and booted it to Humber Bay Park . Left the boat with his girlfriend and into the truck to get to a weigh station at Port Credit Marina . By the time the weigh station opened the fish had lost most of it's water weight and officially weighed in at 33.24 lbs. To our credit , " biggest fish of the day " and 11 th. place for the week = $ 800.00 in prizes .
Now for the Charter Boats , most did not release fish because there was a draw ticket option , ANY Chinook entered was eligible for a draw ticket . So your charters would come in with 4 - 6 guys per boat ( Salmon Hunt ticket included with charter ) and empty the coolers with 8 lb. - 20 lb. fish to be weighed and then they would paper punch the gill plate so it wouldn't be weighed again . Then what , well all I can say , some did take the fish with them . The vast majority however simply got the draw ticket and dumped the whole dead fish into the trash cans . You can imagine how many fish were dumped during the course of the " Hunt " , at 5 fish per participant , 4-6 people per boat . Then there were the regular guys out , like us , some were out for the BIG one , but most would take back whatever they caught , weigh it , take out the skeins and dump it . It was regular practice connected to the derby .

Thought I'd dig up some old photos and post 'em . All the fish pics taken in the boat were released . .There were lots of other smaller ones we released over the years and Steelhead , Browns , Lakers and Coho .
:released1 30lbs.JPG]View attachment 8956[attachment=8957:released3 22lber.JPG

 

[Knuguy]

Pardon my ignorance, but why is it preferable to keep a male rather a female, given that you need both to produce young?

 

[ChaseChrome]

In reference to the Great Lakes fishing.
I was a regular , yearly participant in the " Toronto Star Great Salmon Hunt " . My buddy and I would venture out in his 16 foot Gruman aluminum boat with a 25hp Yammy . We had a two downrigger set up ( manual ) and usually launched at Humber Bay Park because there was alot less traffic there . We would usually head east toward the island and fish at 80 - 100 feet of water . We would keep tabs on the weigh in stations for what the leaders were entering . Pretty much , if the fish was 33 lbs. or better , it was worth killing it to weigh it in . If it was under weight we would take the time to revive them and send them back . One such day fishing off the island , we were at 110 feet of water downrigger set at 80 feet , I had a silver prism Croc on about 4 inches long . My rod went off and 30 minutes later , we boated a 35 lb. hen Chinook and booted it to Humber Bay Park . Left the boat with his girlfriend and into the truck to get to a weigh station at Port Credit Marina . By the time the weigh station opened the fish had lost most of it's water weight and officially weighed in at 33.24 lbs. To our credit , " biggest fish of the day " and 11 th. place for the week = $ 800.00 in prizes .
Now for the Charter Boats , most did not release fish because there was a draw ticket option , ANY Chinook entered was eligible for a draw ticket . So your charters would come in with 4 - 6 guys per boat ( Salmon Hunt ticket included with charter ) and empty the coolers with 8 lb. - 20 lb. fish to be weighed and then they would paper punch the gill plate so it wouldn't be weighed again . Then what , well all I can say , some did take the fish with them . The vast majority however simply got the draw ticket and dumped the whole dead fish into the trash cans . You can imagine how many fish were dumped during the course of the " Hunt " , at 5 fish per participant , 4-6 people per boat . Then there were the regular guys out , like us , some were out for the BIG one , but most would take back whatever they caught , weigh it , take out the skeins and dump it . It was regular practice connected to the derby .

Quite simply NOTTA....WOW

 

[ChaseChrome]

Theres an eye opener! :blink:

Now I know where I'll go for roe

DOZER <---------- Snagger

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[ChaseChrome]

Thought I'd dig up some old photos and post 'em . All the fish pics taken in the boat were released , just the one we entered was kept . .There were lots of other smaller ones we released over the years and Steelhead , Browns , Lakers and Coho .
The boat ,trailer and truck were the Grand Prize at the time and the original newspaper section or what's left of it anyway .View attachment 8955View attachment 8956View attachment 8957View attachment 8958View attachment 8960View attachment 8954View attachment 8959

Some fatties N!!

 

[Alfiegee]

Pardon my ignorance, but why is it preferable to keep a male rather a female, given that you need both to produce young?

The main reason is the females carry the "pearls." Maybe 10,000, of these only a very small percentage will survive to spawn. She digs a nest deposits some which are fertilized by a buck and then another nest and another nest. This series of nests is called a redd. The nests in the redd can be fertilized by different bucks or just one. Anyway once the hen is done she is ready to return to the lake. The males stay and compete for the affections of other hens and each male can fertilize a number of nests. So simply put, if you keep a female, those eggs are gone. If you keep a male there are more males there to fertilize all these nests.
There is more to it than that like gene pools and the survival of the fittest offspring and thereby survival of the species. Where are you Blair?

Alfie.

 

[getin]

Pardon my ignorance, but why is it preferable to keep a male rather a female, given that you need both to produce young?

Same logic as human! A man can impregnate over a 1000 women or more but a woman can give birth to a maximum of 20 babies or so

 

[Brian]

Same logic as human! A man can impregnate over a 1000 women or more but a woman can give birth to a maximum of 20 babies or so

or so???
:grin:

 

[Blair]

The main reason is the females carry the "pearls." Maybe 10,000, of these only a very small percentage will survive to spawn. She digs a nest deposits some which are fertilized by a buck and then another nest and another nest. This series of nests is called a redd. The nests in the redd can be fertilized by different bucks or just one. Anyway once the hen is done she is ready to return to the lake. The males stay and compete for the affections of other hens and each male can fertilize a number of nests. So simply put, if you keep a female, those eggs are gone. If you keep a male there are more males there to fertilize all these nests.
There is more to it than that like gene pools and the survival of the fittest offspring and thereby survival of the species. Where are you Blair?

Alfie.

*SMILES*


-The female takes longer to mature (Thus males mathematically are more "Expendable")

-The males "may" fertalize 2-3 different egg nests where as the Female is only able to reproduce her one specifice genetic line (Female is genetically more important)

-Females have less a mortality rate ( Thus mathematically more important to make sure they live than males)

- Repeat Spawing Females (Mature ones) have better selected nesting areas and produce higher percentage survival of eggs


http://www.mnr.gov.o...el02_178928.pdf



Rainbow Trout Biology

The rainbow trout of the Great Lakes are generally anadromous. Life history typically begins with the deposition of fertilized eggs in nests constructed in riffle areas of tributary streams. The progeny usually remain in streams as “parr” for a period ranging between a few months to three years before moving to the lake. As parr move downstream the biological phenomenon of smoltification occurs with the fish turning to a silvery colour.Once in the Great Lakes, fish grow rapidly and can mature in as little as one year (generally males). Populations of rainbow trout returning to streams to spawn are composed of fish of a variety of ages and sizes (MacCrimmon and Gots1972).

Successful reproduction of rainbow trout in ponds and inland streams is dependant on suitable gravel substrate for nest construction.Occasionally there is evidence of shoal spawners. Landlocked populations do not undergo smoltification but can reach maturity at earlier ages and usually at much smaller sizes than anadromous fish (MacCrimmon and Gots 1972).

The vast majority of naturalized populations in the GreatLakes are spring spawners although fall spawning hatchery stocks have been documented (MacCrimmon and Gots 1972). In many large river systems a proportionof the spawning rainbow trout population migrates into their home stream during the fall, where they over winter and spawn in late winter or early spring. The majority of adults delay their stream migration until ice out in late winter however (Dodge and MacCrimmon 1971, MacCrimmon and Gordon 1981, Seelbach 1993,WDNR 1998).

As spring water temperatures begin to increase towards 5 0C adult rainbow trout move upriver towards spawning habitats (Biette et al.1981). Females dig redds in shallow riffles, runs and tailouts of pools where the stream bottom consists of gravel two to ten centimeters in diameter(Greeley 1932, Dodge 1967). After excavating a pit in the gravel with their tail, the female may deposit up to 2,000 eggs per kilogram of body weight which are fertilized by attendant males (DuBois and Plaster1989).

Although many male fish may be seen at one time in the vicinity of a spawning redd, females can out number males in the spawning population often by 2:1 or greater (Hassinger et al. 1974, Biette et al. 1981,Seelbach 1993). The male fish appear to outnumber females on the spawning grounds because they move from one female to the next as spent females leave their redds and new, ripe females arrive on the spawning grounds (Gonder 2005).

With most of the spawning activity completed by the end of May the spent rainbow trout often move into deep, slow moving pools to recuperate from the rigors of reproduction (Gonder 2005). Natural mortality is approximately 20% for females and 40% for males (Dodge 1967, J. George OMNR, ThunderBay, Ontario pers. comm.). Surviving post-spawn fish may resume feeding activity in the stream environment before returning to the lake.

Where angling harvest is low adult rainbow trout, particularly females, may survive to make several spawning runs (Dodge 1967, Biette et al. 1981, Swanson 1985, Seelbach,1993). George ( OMNR,4Thunder Bay, Ontario. pers. comm.) documented repeat spawning of female fish from seven to nine years in a lightly exploited Lake Superior tributary. These multiple spawning fish, referred to as repeat spawners, are claimed to spawn in higher quality habitats which leads to increased egg survival and are thought to produce better quality and greater numbers of eggs. The presence of repeat spawners buffers against poor maiden (i.e., first time) spawner abundance and the subsequent losses in egg deposition. They also buffer against detrimental environmental conditions which can lead to poor survival rates of young-of-the-year rainbow trout (Gonder2005). George (2005 unpublished data) found a direct correlation between high repeat spawning numbers and strong year class recruitment in Portage Creek, Lake Superior. High numbers of repeat spawners are generally indicative of low levels of exploitation and harvest.

 

[Dozer]

DOZER <---------- Snagger

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Humber Bay Park garbage cans I'm sure there will be a female full of eggs there at some point. And I prefer, professional flosser opposed to snagger :unsure:

 

[hightechdecks]

my dentist told my to floss daily.....so i got myself some #16 diachi's and a ball of steelheader yarn.....again many thanks dozer on your work cleaning up at Wilmot i'm sure Samuel was rolling in his grave over the state of affairs on his creek. we did some work there every time we fished it too, next season start a thread up or PM me, we will be there to help.

 

[ChaseChrome]

Tanks Blair:

Your post is helpful, though as many others the author of "Rainbow Trout Biology" errs in his assertion that:
"The rainbow trout of the Great Lakes are generally anadromous."

It may be a subtle distinction--perhaps only a difference that follows from the narrowing of the definition of diadromous fish, although genetically it may be a difference in kind. It is more accurate to say that Great Lakes steelhead are in fact potamodromous. That is to say they do not migrate from salt to fresh water but rather from fresh to fresh.

 

[ChaseChrome]

my dentist told my to floss daily.....so i got myself some #16 diachi's and a ball of steelheader yarn.....again many thanks dozer on your work cleaning up at Wilmot i'm sure Samuel was rolling in his grave over the state of affairs on his creek. we did some work there every time we fished it too, next season start a thread up or PM me, we will be there to help.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[NOTTA STEELER]

Humber Bay Park garbage cans I'm sure there will be a female full of eggs there at some point. And I prefer, professional flosser opposed to snagger :unsure:

Negative , Dozer .
This was at Port Credit Marina and are you ready for it ? It all took place in 1980's , ya I'm old !!
Now the derby is partially sponsored by the Toronto Sun - [url="http://www.greatontariosalmonderby.ca/ ] From home page click Derby Info and then click - weigh stations . This would be the places to check out this summer .

 

[chris f]

great post guys,lots of info and opinions and chasechrome you are a maestro with words wow :razz:

 

[Slickrick]

heres a question, what is the survival rate of the fish when the eggs are squeezed out, see it done a million times, is that a false sense of catch and release?