fishing is banned in toronto harbour...$2000 fine

[tangledline]

adam vaughan's assistant for the south section of his riding has been [email protected]

 

[mikeh]

mike h thankyou for your leadership last fall and this spring with regards to this issue....i emailed link of your web site sunday to mike riehl sunday .....and to toronto sun writer....the sun is surveying our progress at this point....and may get involved when the facts are clearer as they are slowly evolving. i have not been posting to the site as i feel you are already achieving a solid voice and platform there yourself...
if anything significant comes up over the next week i will make a better effort and post on osf as well....i love what you are building there...i do need to make an effort to participate....soon

I have emailed Toronto sun, Toronto Star, Globe and mail, the Mayors office and asked Harbourcentre PR to respond to my email asking if they intended to specifically target the disabled and kids with this harboufront shoreline fishing ban. (OSF is michaelangelo's forum, I direct my website traffic there as we both have the same views on getting people started with urban fishing.) I am waiting to hear back from Wil at MNR, he was meeting with his contact on city council.

If we do need to take this further and get "organised" perhaps we might ask michaelangelo to set up a closed forum on his site for initial discussions. Let's see what develops between now and this weekend.

 

[Porter86]

I want to say thanks to all of you for doing what you are doing on all of the sites. You tangled have brought this to the attention of those, like me, whos only registered and only visits OFF, and would've prob ended up with a 2,000$ fine if i ever made it down. It seems like their is enough other forums out there, that if we need to we could get enough members to gather down there at harbour front for a peacful rally and get the clarification we need and have them properly post their signs, or start allowing everyone to fish with out the threaten on of being charged 2,000$ and hauled off to jail for trespassing. Maybe one of you with the better understanding of everything can get a facebook page going as well and get this more into the social media, and post the link for the group on ALL of the forums!!

I am down for going down their this weekend for sure. Keep us posted if thats we go to.

 

[NADO]

Wow, this reminds me of how angry I get when I walk down a river and realize I have to turn around because I have suddenly ran into Private Property. This kind of stuff really gets me going. If anyone is going to fish there this weekend let me know, ill make the drive down from Waterloo to take part in your protest. The bigger the crowd the bigger the message.

 

[Bolcheck]

I'll show up!!!

 

[mikeh]

so... MNR is out. They only work with the city in helping promote fishing on City property. TPA are sticking to their line that they don't actively enforce the rule unless the land owner uses it to block fishing. So this is a Harbourcentre management issue. At this point I dont see a useful purpose to any Harbourfront protest this weekend, unless one of you is intending to take the ticket and fight it in court. Be careful though, my leagal advise also mentioned that they may switch the ticket to one of trespass for failing to leave when asked, and remove the fishing isuue from the courts.

 

[mikeh]

OK, just got off the phone

Spoke with Mike Riehl again and he was VERY CLEAR ON THIS... if someone tells you to stop fishing and quotes TPA rule 24 at you, get their name and who they are representing (Harbourcentre security for example) as TPA will want to speak to them about trying to enforce a TPA rule without TPA authority. HarbourFront Centre management have now told TPA that they are enforcing a no fishing zone on their own merit, not based on TPA rule 24 and are /have posted signs to this effect.

You will not be ticketed under TPA rule 24, but you could be ticketed for trespass if you refuse to stop fishing and leave Harbourfront centre property. So... this really narrows it down for us. Get in touch with the city, Harbourfront centre receives public funding for recreational waterfront activities, not for banning them. The rule 24 excuse has officially been puilled out from under their feet by the TPA.

 

[manitoubass2]

I feel for you guys in that area, that's gotta be really frustrating...

Kudos to you all for trying to do the right thing though, very admirable

 

[efka]

Big thank you goes to members on this board for their effort you guys put in this matter. It is really sad to hear this is happening.
Until it is 100% clear you can fish there or not, i suggest we all stay away. Not worth getting fined and going through courts.

 

[NADO]

OK, just got off the phone

Spoke with Mike Riehl again and he was VERY CLEAR ON THIS... if someone tells you to stop fishing and quotes TPA rule 24 at you, get their name and who they are representing (Harbourcentre security for example) as TPA will want to speak to them about trying to enforce a TPA rule without TPA authority. HarbourFront Centre management have now told TPA that they are enforcing a no fishing zone on their own merit, not based on TPA rule 24 and are /have posted signs to this effect.

You will not be ticketed under TPA rule 24, but you could be ticketed for trespass if you refuse to stop fishing and leave Harbourfront centre property. So... this really narrows it down for us. Get in touch with the city, Harbourfront centre receives public funding for recreational waterfront activities, not for banning them. The rule 24 excuse has officially been puilled out from under their feet by the TPA.

So what happens when the rentacop cites rule 24 and then calls the police who threated to enforce it?

 

[Porter86]

take down ALL of their info. TPA is higher than than TPS because it's the Port. Thats entry ways into the country. And i was talking a buddy, if HBC security trys to gives you a ticket, take a look at it. because if it's a harbourfront centre ticket, you dont have to pay it and it holds no merit in cold. So I was told as today.

Thank you for all the info!!

 

[tangledline]

Good afternoon all

I was given a heads up of the 2 fishing incidents that happened over the past few days this morning by one of your fishing colleagues and while I was gathering information for my earlier post, I took the time to register on this site.

"Tangledlines"? I think was your nickname, please call my office and I can help explain this all better if my posting above is still unclear.

As I hope you have all gathered, the over-riding issue here is who owns the land. Several of Tangledlines postings show "public areas" (areas that the public is allowed to visit) but it is property under the control of Harbourfront Centre...and they have a no fishing rule.

City Parks and Rec property is "public" property and fishing is allowed unless posted...so areas like HTO park (I have not checked for signs there today but will try to visit this week), along the western beaches (e.g. Marilyn Bell park unless posted signs), central waterfront park (in front of Harbour Square condos which "mostly" is a city park...the condo might own portions by the boardwalk in the northwest corner), north side of the Outer Harbour (but not in the swimming or boating areas)...the portion of the area from the Outer Harbour (Unwin Ave) to the Outer Harbour Marina belongs to Toronto Portlands Corporation and I currently dont know their fishing rules.

cheers all

Michael
416-462-1227

 

[tangledline]

if the property is private but publically used...signs of prohibited actions must be posted to be enforced...and they are not posted.
Harbourfront Centre is the organization we need to embattle with our efforts.

 

[tangledline]

i am told that harbourfront centre has a no fishing sign but it is site specific and representive.
wave docks have prohibitive activity signs posted but fishing is not one of them.
spadina quay and hto parks and quay have signs posted prohibiting activities but fishing is not listed see pics above...
harbourfront centre has been using port authority laws where in actuality they were required to post their own no fishing rules if they are to be enforced...they never did this because they fear the public out cry...blame the other guy we are just enforcing his rules...its like saying my manager says you can not do that and you gotta go....you ask to speak to the manager but they are unavailable...and you still gotta leave.
harboufront centre bs.....cowards

 

[tangledline]

just finnished a phone conversation with the toronto marine unit public relations officer.....
he will get back to me later today
he is in conversation with harbourfront centre management....
bad news is likely the outcome
i am told by police that prohibitted signs or not if the harbourfront centre owns the property or even the slip wall
that they are not required to post signs that prohibit fishing...they can just tell you to leave....
if you do not leave police will be called and you will be charged.
basically what has changed this past year is that harbourfront security is enforcing their existing rules because the harbourfront area has become so much more congested with multiple activity users they feel that fishing endangers other users of the harbourfront.
now harbourfront security have been quoting laws that are not their own but regardless they are the private property owners.
we will have to show the city and public that we have been pushed out and would like to have an area along harbourfront to fish
could a comprimise be made and an area designated for fishing simular to dog park.....

 

[tangledline]

at this stage ...port authority and marine unit have clarified fishing areas that are ok

toronto islands...not marinas, water filtration plant, private property, beaches or where posted by toronto parks
but the shoreline and canals and ponds are ok to fish....but remember the safety of others.....

west of ferry docks is a snall slip with a concrete globe and waterfall on its west side...you may fish there unless we upset the condo residents
thus be respectfull..... do not fish york quay slip east of the waterfall and globe as that is harbourfront centre territory.

hto park...so new no one in the dept has been notified of its status.....

coronation park west of the west gap near ontario place.....

there is public park space just west of ontario place

leslie spit on the weekends

ashbridges bay park at the outer pennisula

bluffers park in only a few areas watch for signs of no fishing areas

i believe thats it
fishing pressure will be hard on the fish so please practice catch and release....thanks

 

[tangledline]

3pm march 20 just spoke to michael riehl from tpa again i really respect this man's efforts..... he called me to follow up...
i believe he has our backs as best he can....he has certainly given us more clarity through his efforts to communicate...
the toronto port authority is not our problem its harbourfront city mgmt....the marine unit supervisors have conveyed the same message
that harbourfront centre is trying to limit their liability by prohibiting activities they feel are dangerous to co exist with other activities along the waterfront.

 

[tangledline]

thankyou....i was on the phone earlier today with him as well....i believe you must of spoke to him after as he had not got to this point yet...i did tell him about the harbourfront security and the police using rule #24 from the tpa handbook against me....this is good news....bad news i spoke to marine unit for 40 minutes this morning to scott cornett and he has been informed about the misuse of rule #24tpa by the harbourfront security.....he was calling them to discuss the matter further.... but he informed me that they have every right to enforce their own rules on their property and ask us to leave....more so is that the # of persons living in the harbourfront area has grown expotentially and the # of people using the area we have been fishing along has also grown expotentially....thus fishing is considered a safety issue towards the other activities so much so that the harbourfrnt centre does not want to allow fishing as an activity due to liability issues.....in essence our time for using harbourfront is over this would suggest...but i feel there needs to be a comprimise with designated areas to share the resource.....

 

[tangledline]

No doubt they will play the safety angle, and I do think that they will probably get away with no fishing between York St slip and Portland St slip, but at least they will have to do this themselves with signage and not try to hide behind some old rule that was drawn up years ago to stop kids from fishing on the Portlands between freighters. I have emailed City hall to ask why an organisation that recieves public funds to develop waterfront recreational activities is allowed to use the money to ban them instead. Not expecting much to happen though.

Later
Mike

 

[tangledline]

its amazing what can happen when we work together and use the resources and strengths of our fishing forums...fishing forums working together
makes us even stronger....each fishing forum in ontario has its own strengths to offer to fight for our cause...​